Saif, Moroccan saif, sife, nimcha, nimsha

[David R]

nice one.

[werecow]

I want to know who Arn was and why I should fear him.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by werecow

I want to know who Arn was and why I should fear him.

LOL! good one werecow
Well noted that this clearly desperate attempt at the fabled ANDREA FERARA inscription is far from the mark by a native individual in one of the countless trade entrepots across the North African littoral once known as the BARBARY COAST.

It is important to note that while it seems invariably that these distinctly recognizable and ubiquitous sabers are mounted with many variations of European cavalry blades, many later examples of 19th did not carry the kinds of markings long appealing to these native people.

With these familiar markings, which usually consisted of the 'running wolf' of Passau/Solingen; the 'sickle' marks (dentated arcs) of Genoa; the powerful name ANDREA FERARA and others........typically held for centuries as marks of quality in Europe...........with native people, they viewed these in far different light.

Despite the Arab predominance and of course the Muslim Faith, the folk religions and superstitions prevailed, and much as with the complex systems of symbolic devices, these distinct markings were seen as imbuing the blades used in these swords with magic and power..

Interestingly, though most of the blades coming into North Africa by the 19th century were of course German, however with notable diplomatic and trade connections between England and Morocco through 17th century well into 19th, the diffusion of English blades filtered into the Maghreb.
This was the conduit which brought in the numbers of ANDREA FERARA blades (which were actually Solingen made for the Scots).

These kinds of traditionally recognized awareness of these earlier markings led this unknown trader to embellish the blade on this example nimcha accordingly, and NOT to deceive but in the belief that these markings all held talismanic significance. The compounding of these together presumably would add even more potency.

Though naturally I would expect disagreement with my perspective, however IMO it is certainly compellingly plausible.

While these nimcha are typically regarded as from Morocco, Stone (1934) noted them as Algerian, but ALSO used in Morocco. Briggs (1965) who was situated in Algeria used examples he acquired locally in his study on Tuareg blades.

Though this example is likely from early 20th c. the blade is quite possibly from the many European blades circulating through trade centers in the North African littoral from earlier years. It would be hard to define use distinctly to region or whether Arab or Berber as these were so widely used for centuries overall in these regions.

This is a rugged example which is of the type used by the notorious Barbary Pirates from Morocco through Algeria, Tunis and as far as Libya throigh the 19th c. and even by Berber tribes in the Rif Wars in Morocco in the 1920s.

On a more specific note, blades with the 'Genoan' sickle marks that are remarkably similar to those seen on many nimchas, have been found in areas of Black Sea coast. The Genoan presence there in trade since medieval times brought those sickle marks into the Caucusus (there called 'gurda') and Styria (Austria).
These areas were the source of many blades found in North Africa through Arab trade, as these blades were enormously popular there.

While this may be seen by many as 'simply another nimcha', those of us here who have been intrigued by them for many years see the complex history behind them. They have become increasingly harder to find, so this is a wonderful acquisition.

[Maurice]

Hi,

A fine looking Nimcha (in my eyes, though it is not my field of collecting, so my knowledge of these is far less than some others here, like Jim).

Though I am intreged by the history of the Barbary coast 'pirates', I recently bought a rather similar Nimcha as yours. It has a different marking in the blade though.
When first handling it, I was surprised of it's length and weight. It has a great balance too!
Mine had an incredible patina of use, and I cleaned the dark blade superficially.
It aso has a native restore at the (bovine?) hilt.

I hope you don't mind me interfearing your thread, as that is not my intention. But because mine looks like a similar type as you have, I thought it would be ok to discuss both nimchas in one thread.

Regards,
Maurice

[Jim McDougall]

Maurice, perfect entry!!! and of course not at all 'interfering' !! The idea here is discussion not just of one example, but of the form in general to see and learn from the scope of examples shared.

As can be seen, while the 'nimcha' style hilt with its distinct quillon and guard system was widely used throughout the Arab world, and while some examples remain in remarkable condition, many had long working lives throughout the regions of North Africa.
In my view, examples like Yuri's and yours are most exciting, as they were indeed worn, and perhaps used over long periods, and often within various groups as they changed hands.

With colonial actions and intertribal warfare along with trade and many types of interaction through the 19th century, well into the 20th, these swords were not simply traditional fashion, they were worn to be used as required.
Evidence of this is seen with the bolster strap holding the hilt together on Maurice's example.
These hilts were indeed made of horn of some sort, but I'm sure it varied, and while rhino was of course much desired, it was not as readily available and expensive. Horn itself was durable and surely had certain values in the sense of the traditions and nuances of the culture itself.

Going to certain elements on these nimchas, as a form, I notice on the example shown by Maurice, at the forte there is a stamp which comprises what looks like a dentated arc (as seen on Genoan sickle marks) and a star.
This seems to be seen on certain Moroccan examples (as seen on my example attached) and is tempting to suggest it is some sort of 'state' mark of Morocco, but cannot say for sure.

In Morocco, according to Tirri (2003, p.19) it is noted there were numerous weapon making centers in Fez, Meknes, Marrakesh and Rabat where there were apparently favored designs for daggers. Also centers at Tetuan, Taroudent, Ras al Oeued and through Little Atlas there were centers for guns and assembly. Any of these might have been sources for established supply of arms which may have included these swords.

It is noted as well that there was extensive use of imported weapon components (which has been well established), and via the many trade routes, might have come in through any number of the entrepots receiving foreign blades.

This is the reason it is so hard to establish the regional classification of extant nimcha examples. The 'Barbary Coast' (the exonym previously used and derived from 'Berber') extended entirely across the North African littoral from Morocco to Libya. The 'Barbary Pirates' refer to these outlaw raiders who were active throughout roughly 15th c. well through 19th, but as with historic periods, there are no specific limits to exact times, any more than defining the age of piracy itself.

Often it seems surprising that full length swords would be used as a 'pirate' weapon, with shorter stout blades being expected for close quarters on deck fighting. Here I would note that typically, these 'pirates' would transport in their galleys, but raid ashore, thus the full length swords.

[Pertinax]

Hi Maurice!

A wonderful nimcha who has "seen a lot", it's a pity that she can't tell about it herself.

Please indicate the sizes.

Respectfully,
Yuri

[Maurice]

Hello Jim,

Many thanks for the extensive explanation.
It is absolutely fascinating, to learn more about the history of these impressive swords.

It looks like there was a change in blades in the past. The blade shape of Yuri and mine, seem to be from the early 1800's and latter?
According a friendcollector, the earlier blades have a more 'classic' pirate shape of blade, with a widening tip (like the ones from Michiel de Ruyter en Tromp in the Amsterdam Rijksmuseum collection, 17th century).

Kind regards,
Maurice

[Pertinax]

[QUOTE=Jim McDougall;297170]LOL! good one werecow

Though this example is likely from early 20th c. the blade is quite possibly from the many European blades circulating through trade centers in the North African littoral from earlier years. It would be hard to define use distinctly to region or whether Arab or Berber as these were so widely used for centuries overall in these regions.

This is a rugged example which is of the type used by the notorious Barbary Pirates from Morocco through Algeria, Tunis and as far as Libya throigh the 19th c. and even by Berber tribes in the Rif Wars in Morocco in the 1920s.

Hi Jim!

On the European Arsenal forum in the topic "Hussar sabre, real or not?" the serdar showed the sabre.

On the blade there is a stamp "germ" similar to the stamp on my nimcha, which is typical of this location, they are identical.

It can be assumed that this is the marking of an unknown European manufacturer.

I do not undertake to judge the authenticity of the hussar sabre, it is not my topic. But if we believe the curator of the museum that the sabre is from the end of the 17th - beginning of the 18th century, then we can reconsider the age of the nimcha.

What are your thoughts, Jim?

Best regards,
Yuri

[TVV]

Dating is always tricky, especially when it comes to European blades on North African hilts. On top of that, European marks were copied locally, and given the combination of marks on yours Yuri, it looks like most of them were applied in Morocco.

The blade on the hussar saber is of an older form, wider at the base, then narrower and then with a yelman at the tip. Yours on the other hand is much more in line with European 19th century patterns.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by TVV

Dating is always tricky, especially when it comes to European blades on North African hilts. On top of that, European marks were copied locally, and given the combination of marks on yours Yuri, it looks like most of them were applied in Morocco.

The blade on the hussar saber is of an older form, wider at the base, then narrower and then with a yelman at the tip. Yours on the other hand is much more in line with European 19th century patterns.

Completely in accord, and Teodor IMO few people know 'nimchas' as you do.
As noted, European marks were copied profusely, and often added to the European blades already filtering into North African entrepots. In my view these were added to add imbued talismanic or other 'magic' properties to the blade, not any effort to purport certain European makers made the blades.

Clearly English was not the first language of the inscriber, and the ANDREA FERARA blades were known in circulation among trade blades in the networks. Often other marks were added in the same convention, adding further magical support likely along with other familiar European marks, the sickle often seen for example.

I found this mysterious oval mark with the four appendages in Wallace Coll. (p.274) as found on a German blade c. 1560s-1600 in this case bracketed by these dentated arcs (sickle). It is my impression that this is a lesser known mark likely Italian that ended up being spuriously used much as the sickle, twig etc. were used in Styria and Germany. (attached)

Also added the hussar saber with late 17th c blade (prb. Styrian) from discussion on European forum, and with this curious oval mark.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I found this mysterious oval mark with the four appendages in Wallace Coll. (p.274) as found on a German blade c. 1560s-1600 in this case bracketed by these dentated arcs (sickle). It is my impression that this is a lesser known mark likely Italian that ended up being spuriously used much as the sickle, twig etc. were used in Styria and Germany. (attached)

Also added the hussar saber with late 17th c blade (prb. Styrian) from discussion on European forum, and with this curious oval mark.

Bravo Jim! You are, as always, on top, hats off!

Now we already know that the oval sign with four appendages is found on European weapons.

Perhaps one day we will find out who it belonged to.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by TVV

Dating is always tricky, especially when it comes to European blades on North African hilts. On top of that, European marks were copied locally, and given the combination of marks on yours Yuri, it looks like most of them were applied in Morocco.

The blade on the hussar saber is of an older form, wider at the base, then narrower and then with a yelman at the tip. Yours on the other hand is much more in line with European 19th century patterns.

Many thanks to Teodor!

Yes, I absolutely agree with you, the blades on the nimche and the hussar sabre are completely different in shape and age.

When studying the stamps on the nimche, I assumed that the European blade with the "germ" stamp came to Maghreb, where the other pseudo-stamps were added manually. The "germ" stamp was stamped, and the pseudo-stamps were manually chiselled.

Best regards,
Yuri