Markings on Ottoman Sabre

[Jon MB]

Folks, any insights appreciated.

Picked this Ottoman sabre up at auction. I see there is a tughra, I am supposing a state arsenal mark.

Are the Cyrillic -type letters talismanic devices?

I am guessing it is an 18th C. piece, but not my field.

Many thanks in advance,

Jon B

[TVV]

It is not Cyrillic. My guess is that this is in imitation on European marks on older blades, done by someone who was not literate.

[werecow]

I am 99% sure I've seen those markings before (or at least those letters) and 73.52% sure it was on these boards, but my memory fails me.

EDIT: Maybe I am confusing it with this s'boula? But I feel like I've seen better matches.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by TVV

It is not Cyrillic. My guess is that this is in imitation on European marks on older blades, done by someone who was not literate.

I mostly find those imitation blades with Ottoman stamped tughras coming out of Jordan with mounts that are very similar in quality and style to Shibriyas made in Gaza. They sometimes reuse good blades and I assumed that this is their local blade quality.

[serdar]

Hello, it looks indeed a faked old blade markings and by that i mean a old european blade markings the ones usualy found on old karabela blades of period 1550-1690. Even on some husar blades, but predominatly on three fuler karabela blades of steyer provinence, i have two of them, and they have similar letter markings with sickle markings and are certified from period of 1580-1650 made. (Il atach pictures of markings)

And about thugra, i think it is fake, by that i mean it is stamped newly, and other thing, thugras of sultan what that narking is vere never struck on the blade but on the silver part of the scabbard, so someone probably found old thugra seal for silver and struck it on the blade.
Cheers.

[serdar]

I just took a look at “thugra” that is not real antique sultan thugra, someone made fake thugra and struck it on the sword.
Someone made lots of detaile but done it all wrong.

[Jon MB]

Thank you for the comments so far.

I also feel I have seen this exact lettering before somewhere on the forum.

This piece came with a scabbard with Ottoman-type, black vellum set over a leather base, the vellum joined on the inner side of the scabbard by tightly bound copper wiring.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Jon MB

Thank you for the comments so far.

I also feel I have seen this exact lettering before somewhere on the forum.

This piece came with a scabbard with Ottoman-type, black vellum set over a leather base, the vellum joined on the inner side of the scabbard by tightly bound copper wiring.

Mounts are often very important to pinpointing a weapon's origin. Please do share the scabbard!

btw whats the blade quality like? I own a blade with such a tughra, its not that flexible.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Similar markings on a Balkan pistol of mine, possibly French manufacture for the Balkan market with locally applied marks probably done by an illiterate craftsman.
Regards,
Norman.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
Similar markings on a Balkan pistol of mine, possibly French manufacture for the Balkan market with locally applied marks probably done by an illiterate craftsman.
Regards,
Norman.

Hello, that pistol or kubura is not made in france but in Peć city in kosovo, it is balkan pistol called Pećanka, il post you silver mounted version, it is comon and widespread on balkan in 19 century, “marks” or “text” is a giberish, without meaning, decoration or atempt of increasing value.

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by serdar

Hello, that pistol or kubura is not made in france but in Peć city in kosovo, it is balkan pistol called Pećanka, il post you silver mounted version, it is comon and widespread on balkan in 19 century, “marks” or “text” is a giberish, without meaning, decoration or atempt of increasing value.

Hi,
Many thanks for the clarification, much appreciated.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Jon MB]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Mounts are often very important to pinpointing a weapon's origin. Please do share the scabbard!

btw whats the blade quality like? I own a blade with such a tughra, its not that flexible.

Thank you for the input, I will add pictures when home. The blade is reasonably thin but sturdy. I have not tested the 'flex'. The balance is very good, the pivot point being exactly at the start of the fuller. Overall fairly similar to a British 1796 LC blade.

[Jon MB]

Pics with scabbard.