Chronological listing of Polish-Lithuanian and Hungarian sabers

Victrix · 21st March 2023, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teisani

Ulászló II king of Hungary 1515. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/3834

Note silk knots through specially dedicated holes in the sword grips.

Teisani · 21st March 2023, 01:32 PM

Same CoA as this one http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=100. But from 90 years later. Ferdinand II king of Hungary grants Sándor Bakács of Szentgyörgyvölgyi CoA, 1622. Reverse L-guard on his koncerz. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...is/adatlap/249

"By giving his horse to Palatine János Bánffy in the Battle of Mohács, Sándor Bakács saved his life"

Teisani · 21st March 2023, 02:00 PM

King Janos grants CoA in 1533. Early Ottoman-like, short quillons https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...azis/adatlap/2

Teisani · 21st March 2023, 02:34 PM

Ferdinand I king of Hungary grants CoA in 1559. Koncerz vs. Lance! He seems to have been pierced by the lance in his forearm. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/7285

Teisani · 21st March 2023, 02:44 PM

Unrelated but cool. 1559. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/6925

fernando · 21st March 2023, 02:47 PM

Excellent work, Gentlemen; just keep going

.

Teisani · 21st March 2023, 02:54 PM

Figure 8 koncerz from 1559 https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...zis/adatlap/22

Teisani · 22nd March 2023, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix

Note silk knots through specially dedicated holes in the sword grips.

Yes, in my opinion a very "Ottoman" trait. It shows that early 16th century Kingdom of Hungary troops still had some basically identical kit to Ottoman troops. Note, I use Ottoman for simplicity. Check out these "wounded Uzbek prisoner" themed artworks. Notice the sword-knots, very faint unfortunately. Some are hanging on the cross-guard to stop them from flopping around. All have banana-hilts

https://www.flickr.com/photos/persia...ng/36136461795
https://artgallery.yale.edu/collections/objects/91394

Teisani · 22nd March 2023, 10:33 AM

At some point the Ottoman cavalry started to adopt the koncerz. And Ottoman miniatures can provide a wealth of knowledge.
http://warfare.tk/Ottoman/Suleymanname/Suleymanname.htm
Here is an illustrations from the Süleymanname 1558 showing Ottoman Deli Sinan fighting against the Hungarian Eugene at the battle of Mohacs 1526. Notice the koncerz under the deli's left thigh.
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Another one from the same source shows a duel. Both combatants are equipped with koncerz' under their thighs.
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In both instances, the Ottoman's koncerz has an "8-guard".

Teisani · 22nd March 2023, 10:44 AM

More details from thos one. Note, I think that 1572 is the correct date. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=105

Teisani · 22nd March 2023, 10:57 AM

King Ferdinand I of Hungary => Nehóczy Boldizsár noble, Bálint Nehóczy noble | renewal of coat of arms 1560. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/7283

Teisani · 22nd March 2023, 11:02 AM

Helmets aren't perfect. János II elected Hungarian king => András Kotecz of Sajó | coat of arms 1560.
https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/1310

Teisani · 22nd March 2023, 01:03 PM

Member of the elite "rabbit hussars" atop his powerful goat. Year of such calamity, 1582. Armed with lance and wide cross-guard sabre, king Bathory would have been proud to command such destructive potential. Just imagine David Attenborough's voice while reading this

.
https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/7465

21st March 2023, 01:32 PM	#2
Teisani Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Romania Posts: 314	Same CoA as this one http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=100. But from 90 years later. Ferdinand II king of Hungary grants Sándor Bakács of Szentgyörgyvölgyi CoA, 1622. Reverse L-guard on his koncerz. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...is/adatlap/249 "By giving his horse to Palatine János Bánffy in the Battle of Mohács, Sándor Bakács saved his life" Attached Images Last edited by Teisani; 21st March 2023 at 01:49 PM.

21st March 2023, 02:00 PM	#3
Teisani Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Romania Posts: 314	King Janos grants CoA in 1533. Early Ottoman-like, short quillons https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...azis/adatlap/2 Attached Images

21st March 2023, 02:34 PM	#4
Teisani Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Romania Posts: 314	Ferdinand I king of Hungary grants CoA in 1559. Koncerz vs. Lance! He seems to have been pierced by the lance in his forearm. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/7285 Attached Images Last edited by Teisani; 22nd March 2023 at 08:24 AM.

21st March 2023, 02:44 PM	#5
Teisani Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Romania Posts: 314	Unrelated but cool. 1559. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/6925 Attached Images

21st March 2023, 02:54 PM	#7
Teisani Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Romania Posts: 314	Figure 8 koncerz from 1559 https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...zis/adatlap/22 Attached Images

21st March 2023, 02:47 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Excellent work, Gentlemen; just keep going .

22nd March 2023, 10:33 AM	#9
Teisani Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Romania Posts: 314	At some point the Ottoman cavalry started to adopt the koncerz. And Ottoman miniatures can provide a wealth of knowledge. http://warfare.tk/Ottoman/Suleymanname/Suleymanname.htm Here is an illustrations from the Süleymanname 1558 showing Ottoman Deli Sinan fighting against the Hungarian Eugene at the battle of Mohacs 1526. Notice the koncerz under the deli's left thigh. Another one from the same source shows a duel. Both combatants are equipped with koncerz' under their thighs. In both instances, the Ottoman's koncerz has an "8-guard".

22nd March 2023, 10:44 AM	#10
Teisani Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Romania Posts: 314	More details from thos one. Note, I think that 1572 is the correct date. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=105 Attached Images

22nd March 2023, 10:57 AM	#11
Teisani Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Romania Posts: 314	King Ferdinand I of Hungary => Nehóczy Boldizsár noble, Bálint Nehóczy noble \| renewal of coat of arms 1560. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/7283 Attached Images

22nd March 2023, 11:02 AM	#12
Teisani Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Romania Posts: 314	Helmets aren't perfect. János II elected Hungarian king => András Kotecz of Sajó \| coat of arms 1560. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/1310 Attached Images

22nd March 2023, 01:03 PM	#13
Teisani Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Romania Posts: 314	Member of the elite "rabbit hussars" atop his powerful goat. Year of such calamity, 1582. Armed with lance and wide cross-guard sabre, king Bathory would have been proud to command such destructive potential. Just imagine David Attenborough's voice while reading this . https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/7465 Attached Images