Earliest Use of Paired Crescent Moons on Solingen Blades

ulfberth · 1st August 2016, 01:19 PM

Hi All,

so far the earliest version of crescent moon stamps I found was in Hermann Historica auction 71 Lot Nr. 3065 and in this case it was described as a blade of the Munich bladesmith Diefstetter :

"A Swiss hand-and-a-half sword, circa 1570
Long, double-edged blade, each side with a short fuller, the obverse side with a stylised wolf with remnants of brass inlays. Each side of the ricasso with a crescent moon mark of Munich bladesmith Diefstetter"

kind regards

ulfberth · 1st August 2016, 01:26 PM

Here is a very similar hand and a half sword, with an almost identical blade including the crescent moon stamps on both sides of the ricasso and running wolf on the blade, the pommel is very resembling to.

Kind regards

Ulfberth

cornelistromp · 1st August 2016, 03:24 PM

amazing beautiful sword !!!( sword post 36 )

what is the connection between Diefstetter and the crescent moon?

Melchior diefstetter had as mark Crossed flails and shield lozengy (checkered shield).

fe post#5

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=diefstetter

Melchior Diefstetter died in 1556.

ulfberth · 1st August 2016, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

amazing beautiful sword !!!( sword post 36 )

what is the connection between Diefstetter and the crescent moon?

Melchior diefstetter had as mark Crossed flails and shield lozengy (checkered shield).

fe post#5

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=diefstetter

Melchior Diefstetter died in 1556.

Thanks Jasper !
And yes that is correct, Diefstetter is known to have the crossed flails as a blade mark.
The crescent moon referring as a mark of Diefstetter is how the sword ( post 35 ) was described by Hermann Historica.
I was as surprised as you are, perhaps another later member of the family ?

Kind regards

Ulfberth

cornelistromp · 1st August 2016, 06:39 PM

there is also a later member and swordmaker of the diefstetter family from Munich known;

Ulrich Diefstetter 1536-1589, who had a checkered shield and a jester head as a mark but no crescent moon.

best,
Jasper

ulfberth · 1st August 2016, 07:44 PM

I don't know were Hermann Historica got the information about crescent moons used as a mark by Ulrich Diefstetter,
perhaps they had a reference we don't know about yet.
I thought both swords were nice examples that fit in this post "Earliest Use of Paired Crescent Moons on Solingen Blades "
It would be interesting to find out if the crescent moons were used by this family of sword makers or not.
We do know that they were used by various makers, the earliest I found so far are these two similar hand and a half swords.

Kind regards

Ulfberth

Jim McDougall · 2nd August 2016, 02:57 AM

Thank you for posting these Ulfberth!!! and that sword is a beauty!

As far as I have known, the crescent 'man in the moon' stamps were originally used by the 'espaderos del Rey' (sword makers for the king) in Spain, and this particular mark was widely copied in Solingen and Munich.
It was not specific to a certain maker, but became more of an accompanying symbol of imbued quality suggesting the Toledo associations.

The cross and orb and other markings such as the 'Passau Wolf' also became widely used as many other markings in these capacities.

It seems that Stantler was more known to have used these moons as he used Spanish names and the stamps recorded in Palomares on many blades. Diefstetter as noted used flails as a mark, but it would not be surprising in my opinion to see these moons on his blades.

1st August 2016, 01:19 PM	#1
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 430	Hi All, so far the earliest version of crescent moon stamps I found was in Hermann Historica auction 71 Lot Nr. 3065 and in this case it was described as a blade of the Munich bladesmith Diefstetter : "A Swiss hand-and-a-half sword, circa 1570 Long, double-edged blade, each side with a short fuller, the obverse side with a stylised wolf with remnants of brass inlays. Each side of the ricasso with a crescent moon mark of Munich bladesmith Diefstetter" kind regards Attached Images

1st August 2016, 01:26 PM	#2
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 430	Here is a very similar hand and a half sword, with an almost identical blade including the crescent moon stamps on both sides of the ricasso and running wolf on the blade, the pommel is very resembling to. Kind regards Ulfberth Attached Images Last edited by ulfberth; 1st August 2016 at 01:53 PM.

1st August 2016, 07:44 PM	#6
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 430	I don't know were Hermann Historica got the information about crescent moons used as a mark by Ulrich Diefstetter, perhaps they had a reference we don't know about yet. I thought both swords were nice examples that fit in this post "Earliest Use of Paired Crescent Moons on Solingen Blades " It would be interesting to find out if the crescent moons were used by this family of sword makers or not. We do know that they were used by various makers, the earliest I found so far are these two similar hand and a half swords. Kind regards Ulfberth Last edited by ulfberth; 1st August 2016 at 08:26 PM.

1st August 2016, 03:24 PM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	amazing beautiful sword !!!( sword post 36 ) what is the connection between Diefstetter and the crescent moon? Melchior diefstetter had as mark Crossed flails and shield lozengy (checkered shield). fe post#5 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=diefstetter Melchior Diefstetter died in 1556.

1st August 2016, 06:39 PM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	there is also a later member and swordmaker of the diefstetter family from Munich known; Ulrich Diefstetter 1536-1589, who had a checkered shield and a jester head as a mark but no crescent moon. best, Jasper

2nd August 2016, 02:57 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Thank you for posting these Ulfberth!!! and that sword is a beauty! As far as I have known, the crescent 'man in the moon' stamps were originally used by the 'espaderos del Rey' (sword makers for the king) in Spain, and this particular mark was widely copied in Solingen and Munich. It was not specific to a certain maker, but became more of an accompanying symbol of imbued quality suggesting the Toledo associations. The cross and orb and other markings such as the 'Passau Wolf' also became widely used as many other markings in these capacities. It seems that Stantler was more known to have used these moons as he used Spanish names and the stamps recorded in Palomares on many blades. Diefstetter as noted used flails as a mark, but it would not be surprising in my opinion to see these moons on his blades.