Wedung for sharing

[David]

I agree with Alan in that this one needs a bit of TLC, but it seems fairly complete and i'm sure you have the touch Detlef.
I would like to eventual add one of these to my collection...

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

I agree with Alan in that this one needs a bit of TLC, but it seems fairly complete and i'm sure you have the touch Detlef.
I would like to eventual add one of these to my collection...

Thank you David for your kind words and good luck by the hunting.

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Detlef, my comment on origin is simply that, it is not a correction. Quite frankly I don't know where this wedung was made, but I have seen several similar, and those ones were Surakarta, so this one might be Surakarta, or it might be Jogjakarta, or it might be somewhere else.

My comment on age is only a general opinion, I cannot support this comment.

[Sajen]

Alan, noted like this before already, maybe I have expressed myself somewhat unfortunate. One other question, do you have an explanation for the drop like ornamentation on the scabbard? I have seen this on an other wedung scabbard before.

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

No Detlef, I do not.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

No Detlef, I do not.

Thank you anyway Alan.

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

One other question, do you have an explanation for the drop like ornamentation on the scabbard? I have seen this on an other wedung scabbard before.

I am reviving this old thread because i accidentally stumbled upon some information that i don't believe has been stated here before. The question surrounding the ornamentation on this sheath has been brought up a few times, but never answered. But i did just come across the name for this motif that is found on many wedhung sheaths. Solyom calls this leaf-shaped feature "kudup turi" The "d" has a dot underneath which as i understand it has since been done away with in Javanese transcription, but indicates a "dh". So perhaps this should be written as "kudhup turi" today.
Anyway, while this doesn't actually solve the mystery, the name could be a possible clue to do so.
Alan, does this help your understanding of this motifs meaning, function or purpose any?

[Sajen]

Hello David,

Thank you for bringing up this old thread again.

Yes, we need to call Alan! In Bahasa Indonesia the translation is "to doze off", no really sense IMVHO!

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Detlef, I do not know "kudhup" in BI, neither does Mr Echols nor his mate Mr Shadily. Echols & Shadily has been the recognised BI/English & English/BI dictionary for 60 years.

I know the word "turi" & that is the same in both BI & in Modern Javanese, it is a little tree with pretty pink & white flowers. In fact the shape of the bud of the turi flower is shaped much like this motif on the scabbard.

I know the word "khudup" in Javanese, it means a flower bud... my knowledge of Javanese has improved a bit since 2015.

So "khudup turi" means "bud of the turi flower".

I do not know the symbolic intent of this motif, or if indeed there is one. However, one of the names of the turi flower is Agastya and in ancient India it was considered a sacred flower, Agastya was a respected rishi, or sage.

We eat the young buds raw and the flowers are eaten with pecel (peanut sauce), this turi flower supposedly has some medicinal qualities but I do not know what these are.

One idea that occurs to me about this motif is that it might perhaps symbolise the hierarchical position of the wearer, in that it seems to only appear on princely wedung scabbards and princes are in the position of waiting for somebody to die so that they can blossom into their full potential role. Just an idea, I have never heard this, but it is representative of Javanese thought.

I have never owned nor had the opportunity to purchase a wedung that bore this motif on the scabbard, and I have had and now do have a few old ones, good ones, and ones that were the prerogative of princes. The wedungs I have seen photos of that have this motif on the scabbard all have the appearance of 19th century, perhaps this was a style that was in vogue at some point during the 19th century only.

I have run the phrase "kudhup turi" past a couple of native speakers neither of them can relate anything that might sound like "khudup turi" to the idea of dozing off.

EDIT

I thought I had something in my files about the turi flower, I did have:- the flower is associated with Siwa (Shiva), it is sacred to him, and it is symbolic of the creation of new life, as it represents both the male and female sexual organs.

[naturalist]

We, the Javanese, pronounce kudup as the pronounciation of "d" in "do" instead of "d" in "doubt", so it should be written as "kudup"

Originally Posted by David

I am reviving this old thread because i accidentally stumbled upon some information that i don't believe has been stated here before. The question surrounding the ornamentation on this sheath has been brought up a few times, but never answered. But i did just come across the name for this motif that is found on many wedhung sheaths. Solyom calls this leaf-shaped feature "kudup turi" The "d" has a dot underneath which as i understand it has since been done away with in Javanese transcription, but indicates a "dh". So perhaps this should be written as "kudhup turi" today.
Anyway, while this doesn't actually solve the mystery, the name could be a possible clue to do so.
Alan, does this help your understanding of this motifs meaning, function or purpose any?