New Keris/Keris baru

[David]

Originally Posted by sirek

replica or fake is indeed not easy to define
if there is deviated from the traditional form, and we have to deal with the artistic spirit of the modern maker.
IMO its not a replica or a fake keris, but ? a modern impression?

A certain amount of artistic interpretation has always been acceptable to the standards of pakem AFAIK. It can, of course, be taken too far, but that does not seem to be the case in your example.

[A. G. Maisey]

I'm going to stay out of this discussion, for a while, anyway, as I put the questions.

However, on the subject of keris used as items of formal dress. These are very often just pieces of flat iron that are used to hold the dress together. I've even seen cardboard used to hold dress together.

The standards that collectors in the western world use to judge a keris are not often used used by people in Jawa who need a dress keris. It most often comes down to what they can afford. At a grassroots level, all current production is directed at the local market. Keris sold to collectors in foreign lands are not really any sort of special or dedicated production.

[Rick]

Can you expand on what is the local market in Jawa, Alan ?

If many only need a paper stand-in for a wedding; who purchases contemporary work in Jawa ?
Only keris collectors ?

Maybe this is a digression; I would like to know; it might help how I see the keris .

[A. G. Maisey]

I saw the cardboard used by a very poor farm worker. I've seen flat iron (flat galvanised iron as used for chicken coops etc) used by a number of ordinary working people like school teachers, bus drivers etc. Based upon what I've seen in dealers kiosks in Central Jawa, the people who buy ordinary quality new keris are people who want a dress keris and can afford something better than flat iron. People who buy better quality new keris seem to be people who are collectors at one level or another.

My remarks are based on what I've seen, and discussion with friends in Solo who deal.

[Rick]

Alan, is the concept of pusaka from this time gone now ?

People would not purchase a new keris with the intent of it becoming a pusaka in future generations ?

[A. G. Maisey]

No, the pusaka idea has not disappeared. I know a number of people who have ordered new keris with the intent of those keris becoming pusaka, and two people --- one in Jakarta and one in Malaysia--- have placed orders through me for keris intended as pusakas. I'd say the concept is still alive and well.

[tunggulametung]

The title means Javanese who has lost his Javanese identity. These days, perhaps less than 10% of the household own a keris but 90% plus own one or more mobile phone (you can get an okay quality keris at the price of throw away phone). The reality is that life in Java has been more and more Westernized or Arabized-whatever that means.

To my knowledge, these days in Java (also true to Sumatra & Bali), keris worn by the bridegroom are mostly rented/supplied by the bridal shop as part of the attire/make up package. So it really depends on the bridal shop, some provide better keris than the other-true there are many bridal shops who supplied KLO just like what Alan said, but no cardboard to my knowledge (what year is that Alan?), mostly just simple thin metal. Even if someone own a keris, it is not always the one he worn at the wedding ceremony. Not to mention that in Java there are less and less traditional wedding ceremony being replaced with somewhat more Islamic attire where keris is no longer present (these are often more affordable as far as the budget goes). Same to the wedding entertainment where traditional shows like wayang which had been widely replaced by more modern entertainment like orgen tunggal or dangdut (often with DJ!).

I completely agree with Alan regarding the buyer of better quality keris which mostly are collectors but I have different observation regarding pusaka concept which is in general nearly no longer existent in Java, but the concept of family keris as pusaka is alive in Bali especially in the extended family level (not every household own a keris).

Attached is a wedding photo of RI president's son not so long ago (Java-Palembang intermarriage). He obviously came from a family who should be able to afford the best available keris in the market but it looks like a KLO to me (I hope I'm wrong). There's another notable three days wedding ceremony last year (Hamengkubuwono's daughter, Lampung-Java intermarriage) which may represent the royal family or ningrat wedding where proper keris is usually being worn. It is interesting to note that in one of the ceremony where RI 1 present, all keris except Hamengkubuwono's and the bridegroom's are being tied down as part of the presidential protocol.

[HughChen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I'm going to stay out of this discussion, for a while, anyway, as I put the questions.

However, on the subject of keris used as items of formal dress. These are very often just pieces of flat iron that are used to hold the dress together. I've even seen cardboard used to hold dress together.

The standards that collectors in the western world use to judge a keris are not often used used by people in Jawa who need a dress keris. It most often comes down to what they can afford. At a grassroots level, all current production is directed at the local market. Keris sold to collectors in foreign lands are not really any sort of special or dedicated production.

Hell, Maisey. As you said all current production is directed at the local market, I heared that in 1900s, many Keris were produced specially and deliberately for export to Europe. Is that really?

[A. G. Maisey]

I do not believe that we should lump the entire 20th century into one basket.

Pre-WWII tourism does seem to have resulted in the production of not only keris, but many types of ethnographic artefacts that were intended for sale to visitors to the old Dutch East Indies.

During the period between more or less 1940 & 1950 there were probably a very few keris made and these would have been intended exclusively for local use.

The revival of keris culture began in the late 1960's or early 1970's, as it has progressed it is probably true that all actual making of keris has been for local consumption, every Javanese man who wishes to dress in formal attire must wear a keris, so this local need for keris is the biggest single factor in keris production.

But not all keris made were prepared for sale to only the local market, nor were keris produced only as items of formal attire. The collector market in Indonesia is extremely active, many keris were & are prepared for this market. Some keris were & are made as sophisticated works of art.

In fact, the market for keris outside Indonesia is something that receives very little attention from Indonesian craftsmen & dealers, the local market is where the money is.

Visitors to Indonesia who wish to take one or more keris home to their own country with them face quite a few hurdles, so sales to tourists are now so few that general dealers who once sold keris now focus on more easily transportable items.

[HughChen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I do not believe that we should lump the entire 20th century into one basket.

Pre-WWII tourism does seem to have resulted in the production of not only keris, but many types of ethnographic artefacts that were intended for sale to visitors to the old Dutch East Indies.

During the period between more or less 1940 & 1950 there were probably a very few keris made and these would have been intended exclusively for local use.

The revival of keris culture began in the late 1960's or early 1970's, as it has progressed it is probably true that all actual making of keris has been for local consumption, every Javanese man who wishes to dress in formal attire must wear a keris, so this local need for keris is the biggest single factor in keris production.

But not all keris made were prepared for sale to only the local market, nor were keris produced only as items of formal attire. The collector market in Indonesia is extremely active, many keris were & are prepared for this market. Some keris were & are made as sophisticated works of art.

In fact, the market for keris outside Indonesia is something that receives very little attention from Indonesian craftsmen & dealers, the local market is where the money is.

Visitors to Indonesia who wish to take one or more keris home to their own country with them face quite a few hurdles, so sales to tourists are now so few that general dealers who once sold keris now focus on more easily transportable items.

Thank you, Maisy. So in conclusion, in the 19th century and the first half of the 20th century, there were probably more keris supplied to Western exotic enthusiasts, while in the second half of the 20th century, after World War II, keris were mainly supplied to the local market. Is that correct?