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Old 24th June 2025, 05:58 PM   #1
SwordLover79
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Default Baskethilt Dagger for ID and discussion

Gentlemen: its been quite a while since I posted, but I have been enjoying the forum discussions as usual. Here a dagger that I acquired last year. The 13.25 inch blade is 1 inch wide with a central ridge running the length on both sides. The copper mesh wrapped grip is 3 1/4 inches capped with a 1 3/4 inch steel pommel. The quillons are 8 inches wide. No markings on the hilt or blade that I can see. I would love to learn something about the country and timeframe that this dagger was made. All comments and insights most welcome...Thanks!
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Old 25th June 2025, 05:57 AM   #2
kronckew
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Looks like a variant of a main gauche - left hand parrying dagger, almost a sail-guard, but skeletal, with extra large perforations.
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Old 25th June 2025, 03:51 PM   #3
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The late C16th in England / Scotland saw the evolution of basket hilted or 'ale house daggers'. There are way more descriptions than survivors. There was one in York Museum (UK).

John Smythe mentions them in 1590 - 'great brauling Alehouse hilts', as do others, and they seem to be the same as 'bum daggers' (which are noted as having iron hilts), due to being worn across the waist/backside and are probably the same thing as 'close hilted' daggers. Close-hilted being used to describe basket hilted swords. Some accounts desribe the daggers as weighting 2-3lbs and the hilts as being handy to flatten peoples noses, so they were beefy things. Di Grassi has a print showing one in use versus a sword.

Whether this is one from that era I don't know, but it's a line of enquiry. The blade type with the distinct spine looks right. There were some mid C16th English royal proclamations limiting blades on daggers to 12" (which was probably ignored as much as the proscriptions on rapier blade length were), so 13" is in the right ballpark.
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Old 26th June 2025, 03:54 PM   #4
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Thanks for the early feedback Guys! Best I have come up with so far is pictured on this page from "Scottish Weapons And Fortifications 1100-1800" by David Caldwell, 1981. Lowland Scots late 16th - early 17th Century.
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Old 29th June 2025, 10:29 PM   #5
Jim McDougall
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This is truly an interesting example, and though the grip and ferrules likely replaced, the dagger overall seems quite old. The pommel of the popular olive type (Norman, 1980,p.267) of type #62 (1625-45).
As the excellent reference added from Caldwell, 1981 in the late Mr. Blair's outstanding article on basket hilts shows, this dagger is well within the parameters of these which seem to parallel the left hand gauches typically accompanying rapiers.

As he notes (p.233),
"...the apparently odd combination of guards of sub Highland type with rapiers and poniards would perhaps seem less odd in a Lowland Scots context, for Lowland fashions on the whole followed those of England and Continental Europe, but were subjected to the influences from the Highlands."

While Scottish swordplay of course did not include the use of left hand dagger, still the presence of a dirk or dagger was essentially part of the arming of the Scot. Though the basket hilt form actually had early beginning in England from Northern European influences, its profound development in the Scottish Highlands became the recognized standard.

Years ago studying the development and character of Scottish basket hilts, working with Keith Fisher and Peter Hudson, I learned of the true 'X-factor' in the evolution of many forms of these swords were situated with the warrior groups of 'Border Reivers'. These were family clans who lived in border areas between Lowland Scotland and North England, and with these diaphanous 'borders', it was hard to determine if they were Scottish or English. Their primary allegiance was to their family clans.

The weaponry used by these groups was diverse to say the least, and the combining of many forms was pretty much the standard. As Triari notes in his post, the 'alehouse dagger'; 'bum dagger' were popular daggers worn in the small of the back, and as fighting daggers on their own.

The 'close hilt', which was a popular term for basket hilts, became well known on these forms of daggers as has been noted, and while hard to distinguish as either Scottish or English in classification it would be Northern British and of early 17th into mid century. Most importantly I would regard this example as a good candidate for probable use in the turbulent areas of the Reivers.,
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Old Yesterday, 09:13 AM   #6
Triarii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordLover79 View Post
Thanks for the early feedback Guys! Best I have come up with so far is pictured on this page from "Scottish Weapons And Fortifications 1100-1800" by David Caldwell, 1981. Lowland Scots late 16th - early 17th Century.
Thanks for reminding me that I have a copy of Caldwell. I repeatedly forget that Blair's article is secreted away in it.
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Old Yesterday, 05:13 PM   #7
Jim McDougall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triarii View Post
Thanks for reminding me that I have a copy of Caldwell. I repeatedly forget that Blair's article is secreted away in it.
The late Mr.Blair was one of the most resounding authorities on arms ever! and this article remains the showcase work exemplifying this. It should be a book on its own.
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