Kubachi (?) Kidjal/Qama maker's ID/translation

mariusgmioc · 20th April 2016, 09:38 AM

Hello,

A couple of years ago, I got this Kindjal/Qama which displays the characteristics of Kubachi workshops.

However, I am not sure about its Kubachi origin and I am hoping to get more information about this, maybe even identify the makers's stamp.

Regards,

Marius

Battara · 20th April 2016, 04:12 PM

I can't help you, but just to say what a beautiful piece. Craftmanship is impressive.

estcrh · 20th April 2016, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I can't help you, but just to say what a beautiful piece. Craftmanship is impressive.

Agreed, some clearer / more detailed images would be nice, is that wire inserted into the hilt, and what material is that?

ariel · 20th April 2016, 08:52 PM

I have my antennae twitching.

Leather has no scuffing, gold decorations on the scabbard and the handle are pristine, but the blade had seen better days: scratched, heavily cleaned, resharpened...
Unless you suggest old blade was used for sentimental (?) reasons with new furniture and then stored in a humidity/temperature controlled bank vault.....

You know what I mean.

mariusgmioc · 20th April 2016, 09:14 PM

This is not a 18th century sword but an early 20th century.

The hilt is ivory, but I don't think it is elephant as I can't see the typical structure.

The wire is gold and silver and has significant losses consistent with an early 20th century sword.

The blade has numerous nicks as it was probably used in the traditional dances.

The leather appears to be more recent but I have seen leather from WWII in better condition, so it is hard to say.

More detailed photos will have to wait as I will go for one month holiday on Friday.

Would better photos help identifying the maker's stamp?

estcrh · 20th April 2016, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Leather has no scuffing, gold decorations on the scabbard and the handle are pristine, but the blade had seen better days: scratched, heavily cleaned, resharpened...

Really hard to tell without clear, detailed images, what appears to be new, unused etc can in reality be heavily worn / tarnished etc.

ariel · 20th April 2016, 11:33 PM

You might be right: I do not have it in my hands. Better pick of damages might easily convince me.

mariusgmioc · 21st April 2016, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

You might be right: I do not have it in my hands. Better pick of damages might easily convince me.

Yeah, you are right but keep it in mind I wasn't curious about general assesment of the sword itself as I am pretty sure it is early 20th century (late 19th at best).

I was and still am curious about the maker's stamp, and so far I didn't get any much info on that.

PS: I f you're planning to visit Netherlands, I will be delighted to show you my collection and then you may have the chance to have it in your hands... providing you wear gloves.

ariel · 21st April 2016, 11:23 AM

Agreed:-)

Roland_M · 21st April 2016, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I was and still am curious about the maker's stamp, and so far I didn't get any much info on that.

Hi Marius,

I have sent the picture of the maker's stamp to our colleques in Egypt. Maybe they are able to translate the inscription, but it take a few days.
I hope, that it is not Farsi.

Roland

mariusgmioc · 21st April 2016, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hi Marius,

I have sent the picture of the maker's stamp to our colleques in Egypt. Maybe they are able to translate the inscription, but it take a few days.
I hope, that it is not Farsi.

Roland

Thanks! :-)

Roland_M · 22nd April 2016, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Thanks! :-)

Hi Marius,

here is the quick reply from Egypt:

"The words not clear, but the second one is may be Mohamed, the first one not clear at all, but we can say glory of Mohamed, or cradle of Mohamed."

Regards,
Roland

mariusgmioc · 22nd April 2016, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hi Marius,

here is the quick reply from Egypt:

"The words not clear, but the second one is may be Mohamed, the first one not clear at all, but we can say glory of Mohamed, or cradle of Mohamed."

Regards,
Roland

Thank you!

Have a nice weekend!

Marius

ingelred · 24th April 2016, 01:09 PM

Hi,

I am not quite sure, indeed better pictures are needed, but I have a question.
Are the "scratches" on the blade really scratches or traces of engraving to resemble pattern welded steel?

Best regards, Helge

mariusgmioc · 24th April 2016, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ingelred

Hi,

I am not quite sure, indeed better pictures are needed, but I have a question.
Are the "scratches" on the blade really scratches or traces of engraving to resemble pattern welded steel?

Best regards, Helge

They are scratches from resharpening of the blade.

And I cannot fathom how even egraving with anything similar to what this blade shows could possibly make it look like pattern welded?!

20th April 2016, 09:38 AM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,912	Kubachi (?) Kindjal/Qama maker's ID/translation Hello, A couple of years ago, I got this Kindjal/Qama which displays the characteristics of Kubachi workshops. However, I am not sure about its Kubachi origin and I am hoping to get more information about this, maybe even identify the makers's stamp. Regards, Marius Attached Images Last edited by mariusgmioc; 20th April 2016 at 03:08 PM.

20th April 2016, 09:14 PM	#5
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,912	This is not a 18th century sword but an early 20th century. The hilt is ivory, but I don't think it is elephant as I can't see the typical structure. The wire is gold and silver and has significant losses consistent with an early 20th century sword. The blade has numerous nicks as it was probably used in the traditional dances. The leather appears to be more recent but I have seen leather from WWII in better condition, so it is hard to say. More detailed photos will have to wait as I will go for one month holiday on Friday. Would better photos help identifying the maker's stamp? Last edited by mariusgmioc; 20th April 2016 at 09:32 PM.

20th April 2016, 04:12 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,342	I can't help you, but just to say what a beautiful piece. Craftmanship is impressive.

20th April 2016, 08:52 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have my antennae twitching. Leather has no scuffing, gold decorations on the scabbard and the handle are pristine, but the blade had seen better days: scratched, heavily cleaned, resharpened... Unless you suggest old blade was used for sentimental (?) reasons with new furniture and then stored in a humidity/temperature controlled bank vault..... You know what I mean.

20th April 2016, 11:33 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	You might be right: I do not have it in my hands. Better pick of damages might easily convince me.

21st April 2016, 11:23 AM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Agreed:-)

24th April 2016, 01:09 PM	#14
ingelred Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Moenchengladbach, Germany Posts: 62	Hi, I am not quite sure, indeed better pictures are needed, but I have a question. Are the "scratches" on the blade really scratches or traces of engraving to resemble pattern welded steel? Best regards, Helge