Sudan Dagger ?

Warren McQ · 10th May 2009, 02:46 AM

Hi all,
I just picked this up yesterday, the blade configuration and quality caught my eye. I'd like to know when and where it might have come from, Sudan is my best guess.
Thanks,
Warren in Arizona

ariel · 10th May 2009, 03:45 PM

If you pester Lew hard enough, he may remember a thing or two about similar daggers

Warren McQ · 10th May 2009, 04:16 PM

I would be grateful for any information that Lew might share with me.
It seems that I have become interested in knives that I know very little about. The only thing I have to go on is my 40yrs experience in collecting US military knives for which there is plenty of documentation.
I haven't found a book yet that gives a beginner the information needed to get started in this field of collecting.

If it weren't for this forum I wouldn't know anything about these knives, now I know a little, enough to be dangerous.
Thanks to all,
Warren in Arizona

Lew · 10th May 2009, 05:43 PM

Warren

I saw that one and its real nice with well defined fullers. My guess is pre 1940s. When you get it take a pic of the hilt looking down at the top of the butt I need to see the finale.

Lew

Warren McQ · 10th May 2009, 10:07 PM

Thanks Lew, I'll post some pics as soon as it lands.

Warren in Arizona

roanoa · 11th May 2009, 06:30 PM

Nice blade. Here is one very similar, though it's curved. This dagger is the traditional Hadendoa/Beni-Amer/Beja "X" hilted dagger. So it is surely Sudanese/Eritrean. The construction of your blade is very similar, plus the shape of the hilt suggests Sudan/Ethiopia. Too bad the scabbard is missing.

Lew · 11th May 2009, 10:31 PM

A more recent example for comparison.

Warren McQ · 12th May 2009, 01:13 AM

Thanks Guys, the more I see of these knives the more esthetically pleasing I find the design. They look like a work of art rather then a weapon. Were these blades locally forged in Africa or were they imported and then assembled.

Thanks for the pic of the scabbard, I'd like to have one made for this knife if it's economically feasible.

I've got a few more African knives that I'll take pics of and see what you all think.

Warren in Arizona

Emanuel · 12th May 2009, 01:39 AM

Nice dagger, Warren. I especially like the handle.

Here are two more for comaprison, turn of the century (19th-20th) or so.

Cheers!
Emanuel

Lew · 12th May 2009, 01:54 AM

Manolo

Your top dagger is of the Omdurman style (thats my classification)

which was very popular during the late 1890s-1900 a nice example. Warrens seems more Hadendoa to me and probably dates from about 1918-45.

Lew

Emanuel · 12th May 2009, 02:21 AM

Yup, I remember the discussion we had when I got it. Was I a happy camper that day

The blade's got Umdurman written on it, so your classification is most applicable.

asomotif · 13th May 2009, 12:10 AM

Those addictive little arm daggers

Here is my example with fullered blade for comparison.

Best regards,
Willem

Rick · 13th May 2009, 01:08 AM

Must .... not ..... give ........ in .... starting ............ to ......... desire .............

Lew · 13th May 2009, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Must .... not ..... give ........ in .... starting ............ to ......... desire .............

Rick

I fear it is already too late for you my friend

Lew

Warren McQ · 13th May 2009, 04:19 AM

OH MY ! after seeing all of your knives I find myself running to the mailbox looking for mine and I know it was only mailed yesterday

I've got my eye on another of these beautiful knives so I think the virus has hit me also.

Warren in Arizona

Warren McQ · 6th June 2009, 08:15 PM

Well, This finally arrived after being shipped to Israel by mistake . It almost made it back to where it was born

I've done some light cleaning and added some pics that Lew asked for.
If you have an idea of the age of this knife I'd be eternally grateful.
Thanks Much,
Warren in (HOT) Arizona

Emanuel · 6th June 2009, 10:00 PM

That's a sexy blade Warren

Early 1900s seems plausible.

Warren McQ · 7th June 2009, 12:59 AM

Thanks Very Much, I wasn't disappointed at all when I finally had it in my hands.
The only thing I could wish for would have been it being signed like yours.
The workmanship on these knives is incredible.
I have some beautifully forged Kukries from the same era and they are not as well executed as this knife.
I can't wait to find some more of these knives.

Warren in Arizona

Lew · 7th June 2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

That's a sexy blade Warren

Early 1900s seems plausible.

Manolo

The hilt doesn't have a smooth patina file marks still evident on the wood probably 1940s era. Still an excellent example .

Congrats

Warren McQ · 7th June 2009, 06:38 PM

Thanks Lew,
Could you tell me the specific points to look for in an old knife of this type ??
I really do want to give some of these knives a good home and I'd like to be able to tell my Great Grand Children just what they are inheriting

Thanks Again,
Warren in Arizona

Lew · 7th June 2009, 10:12 PM

Warren

Patina overall quality,scabbard constuction/style and materials. Below are a grouping from my collection. Second from left,center and second from right are 1930s-40s. 19th century daggers usually have heavier better quality silver or some have small coins (PIASTRES) at the end of the pommel. Also many old ones are marked with a date most from 1890-1900.

Warren McQ · 7th June 2009, 11:57 PM

Thanks Lew for sharing some of your collection with us.

Those are some awesome knives, almost drooled on my keyboard looking at them................
I'll be looking to acquire some more of these knives as long as my play money holds out.

Warren in Arizona

Rick · 8th June 2009, 12:50 AM

Heck Warren , I go through about 5 keyboards a year on this site .

Emanuel · 10th June 2009, 01:45 AM

Good eyes, Lew. I got blinded by the blade. love the profile...

Now that you've shown all that sexy "Sudanese dagger" porn you know I've got to go hunting for some of my own

. Haven't seen too many on the bay lately.

Lew · 10th June 2009, 02:12 AM

Keep looking Manolo they show up from time to time.

Lew

Rick · 10th June 2009, 02:21 AM

Let's not drive up the price fellas .
Remember what we did to the Dha and the Moro Kris ....

Lew · 10th June 2009, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Let's not drive up the price fellas .
Remember what we did to the Dha and the Moro Kris ....

Rick

Don't worry I have quite enough for now.

colin henshaw · 10th June 2009, 05:02 PM

Hi

Here's my contribution - got this recently. That "circle and dot" motif seems to get everywhere.

Regards

Lew · 10th June 2009, 05:11 PM

Colin

Can we see the blade please?

colin henshaw · 10th June 2009, 05:49 PM

Here it is, needs a bit of cleaning. Also a picture of the handle from the side.

Regards
Colin

10th May 2009, 02:46 AM	#1
Warren McQ Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 40	Sudan Dagger ? Hi all, I just picked this up yesterday, the blade configuration and quality caught my eye. I'd like to know when and where it might have come from, Sudan is my best guess. Thanks, Warren in Arizona Attached Images

10th May 2009, 05:43 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Warren I saw that one and its real nice with well defined fullers. My guess is pre 1940s. When you get it take a pic of the hilt looking down at the top of the butt I need to see the finale. Lew Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 10th May 2009 at 10:25 PM.

11th May 2009, 06:30 PM	#6
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 230	Nice blade. Here is one very similar, though it's curved. This dagger is the traditional Hadendoa/Beni-Amer/Beja "X" hilted dagger. So it is surely Sudanese/Eritrean. The construction of your blade is very similar, plus the shape of the hilt suggests Sudan/Ethiopia. Too bad the scabbard is missing. Attached Images

11th May 2009, 10:31 PM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	A more recent example for comparison. Attached Images

12th May 2009, 01:39 AM	#9
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Nice dagger, Warren. I especially like the handle. Here are two more for comaprison, turn of the century (19th-20th) or so. Cheers! Emanuel Attached Images

10th May 2009, 03:45 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	If you pester Lew hard enough, he may remember a thing or two about similar daggers

10th May 2009, 04:16 PM	#3
Warren McQ Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 40	I would be grateful for any information that Lew might share with me. It seems that I have become interested in knives that I know very little about. The only thing I have to go on is my 40yrs experience in collecting US military knives for which there is plenty of documentation. I haven't found a book yet that gives a beginner the information needed to get started in this field of collecting. If it weren't for this forum I wouldn't know anything about these knives, now I know a little, enough to be dangerous. Thanks to all, Warren in Arizona

10th May 2009, 10:07 PM	#5
Warren McQ Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 40	Thanks Lew, I'll post some pics as soon as it lands. Warren in Arizona

12th May 2009, 01:13 AM	#8
Warren McQ Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 40	Thanks Guys, the more I see of these knives the more esthetically pleasing I find the design. They look like a work of art rather then a weapon. Were these blades locally forged in Africa or were they imported and then assembled. Thanks for the pic of the scabbard, I'd like to have one made for this knife if it's economically feasible. I've got a few more African knives that I'll take pics of and see what you all think. Warren in Arizona

12th May 2009, 01:54 AM	#10
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Manolo Your top dagger is of the Omdurman style (thats my classification) which was very popular during the late 1890s-1900 a nice example. Warrens seems more Hadendoa to me and probably dates from about 1918-45. Lew

12th May 2009, 02:21 AM	#11
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Yup, I remember the discussion we had when I got it. Was I a happy camper that day The blade's got Umdurman written on it, so your classification is most applicable. Last edited by Manolo; 12th May 2009 at 02:56 AM.

13th May 2009, 12:10 AM	#12
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	Those addictive little arm daggers Here is my example with fullered blade for comparison. Best regards, Willem Attached Images

13th May 2009, 01:08 AM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,263	Must .... not ..... give ........ in .... starting ............ to ......... desire .............

13th May 2009, 04:19 AM	#15
Warren McQ Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 40	OH MY ! after seeing all of your knives I find myself running to the mailbox looking for mine and I know it was only mailed yesterday I've got my eye on another of these beautiful knives so I think the virus has hit me also. Warren in Arizona

6th June 2009, 08:15 PM	#16
Warren McQ Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 40	Well, This finally arrived after being shipped to Israel by mistake . It almost made it back to where it was born I've done some light cleaning and added some pics that Lew asked for. If you have an idea of the age of this knife I'd be eternally grateful. Thanks Much, Warren in (HOT) Arizona Attached Images

6th June 2009, 10:00 PM	#17
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	That's a sexy blade Warren Early 1900s seems plausible.

7th June 2009, 12:59 AM	#18
Warren McQ Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 40	Thanks Very Much, I wasn't disappointed at all when I finally had it in my hands. The only thing I could wish for would have been it being signed like yours. The workmanship on these knives is incredible. I have some beautifully forged Kukries from the same era and they are not as well executed as this knife. I can't wait to find some more of these knives. Warren in Arizona

7th June 2009, 06:38 PM	#20
Warren McQ Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 40	Thanks Lew, Could you tell me the specific points to look for in an old knife of this type ?? I really do want to give some of these knives a good home and I'd like to be able to tell my Great Grand Children just what they are inheriting Thanks Again, Warren in Arizona

7th June 2009, 10:12 PM	#21
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Warren Patina overall quality,scabbard constuction/style and materials. Below are a grouping from my collection. Second from left,center and second from right are 1930s-40s. 19th century daggers usually have heavier better quality silver or some have small coins (PIASTRES) at the end of the pommel. Also many old ones are marked with a date most from 1890-1900. Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 7th June 2009 at 10:26 PM.

7th June 2009, 11:57 PM	#22
Warren McQ Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 40	Thanks Lew for sharing some of your collection with us. Those are some awesome knives, almost drooled on my keyboard looking at them................ I'll be looking to acquire some more of these knives as long as my play money holds out. Warren in Arizona

8th June 2009, 12:50 AM	#23
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,263	Heck Warren , I go through about 5 keyboards a year on this site .

10th June 2009, 01:45 AM	#24
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Good eyes, Lew. I got blinded by the blade. love the profile... Now that you've shown all that sexy "Sudanese dagger" porn you know I've got to go hunting for some of my own . Haven't seen too many on the bay lately.

10th June 2009, 02:12 AM	#25
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Keep looking Manolo they show up from time to time. Lew

10th June 2009, 02:21 AM	#26
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,263	Let's not drive up the price fellas . Remember what we did to the Dha and the Moro Kris ....

10th June 2009, 05:02 PM	#28
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi Here's my contribution - got this recently. That "circle and dot" motif seems to get everywhere. Regards Attached Images

10th June 2009, 05:11 PM	#29
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Colin Can we see the blade please?

10th June 2009, 05:49 PM	#30
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Here it is, needs a bit of cleaning. Also a picture of the handle from the side. Regards Colin Attached Images