an insight into museums and collections

[Mark]

I got a cool reaction when I offered to do some volunteer conservation on the SE Asian collection at the Smithsonian. Then again, I had essentially just walked off of the street at that point. Hopefully I can cultivate the relationship to the point where that could happen.

[Rick]

Occasional rays of sunlight in the collective gloom .

http://www.oakeshott.org/

[B.I]

i agree with andrew, and there is nowhere i would trust with my collection. again, this wasnt a moan about institutions, but a summary of the way things are at the moment.
there is always hope that things will change, and the 'ray of sunshine' rick offered proves that.
its all about generating an interest that goes past the already enthusiastic enthusiast. with our interest comes history and its in this history that the answers may lie in getting the general public on board. the cost of organising new exhibitions are ridiculously high, when you consider the hassle involved in museum loans etc. but, when one happens that concerns arms, you realise the decision to do this must be based on an interest that exists.
the oakshot institute is a great example of how things should be.
unfortunatley, ewan was an institution in himself and thus uncommon but we can all hope that we will all wield such prowess in the academic world one day :-)
also, his passion for his studies was well known, and so it would be hard to stifle his name now. his collection was almost secondary to the legacy he left behind.
i am glad everyone feels the same way. i said it was a hard post to write, for i knew i was in fear of giving ammunition to fire at institutions, which i really wanted to avoid. i should have had more faith :-)

[B.I]

ive attached an image of one of the pieces in the collection. this wasnt one i had pulled aside for the conservation team, as by then i thought i was pushing my luck. the environment is controlled now, and so any rust that has eaten in has done its damage and its spread will be slower.
i wont post any other pictures, and have cropped this to just show the gory details. with the omittence of the museums name, i am happy i am not breaking confidence by posting this.
the piece is an early pata. probably dates from the early 17thC (possibly slightly earlier), although its decoration (but not so much the form) goes into the late 16thC. always assumed as tanjore (or mysore in other cases) as most dont look further than these two districts. the style of decoration is more remeniscent of vellor, and in some ways madurai (although the chisselwork was finer) and the temples of both areas reflect this decoration.
this piece is completly covered in silver (blackened with tarnish) and the live rust has eaten below the silver and is pushing it out. the silver was flaking off in my hands as i held it and it was obvious it was a recent thing.
shocking picture, especially when you know it this wasnt the worst.

[Jens Nordlunde]

It is a sad subject Brian brings up, sad, be course many of the museums don’t have the money/interest/knowledge, needed for the care of weapons and other artefacts, either bought over the years, or gifts the museum or the country have received.

The museums are not allowed/will not sell some of the weapons from their reserves, saying they are there for further research, and while waiting for the research many of the weapons rust – often badly, witch when/if the research is ever done it will be made difficult, if not impossible, according to how heavy the rust on the weapon is.

I really don’t see a solution on this problem, until the politicians start to wake. Until then, and it may be a while, Ian’s suggestion can be tried. I doubt that many collectors, even with extra education, will be allowed into the museums to help, be course, as Brian says, you have to know the curators well to be allowed to see their reserves – not to speak about cleaning the weapons – you might spoil the rust. When this said, I must also say, that I know many museums are very unhappy with the situation, and do what they can to change it, plus that the museums which have money do all they can to keep their reserves intact.

Saddening to see the pictures - did you say they had 1500 oriental weapons in all?

[wolviex]

Gentlemen!

As a museum worker and called out by Brian, I feel compelled to write few words from museum point of view.

First, I’m happy that you are all so well informed about museums situation. Everything what you have written is true and actually I could just stop right here. I do not have any brand new idea how to change things. There are people whose job is thinking how to manage museums, they are creating theories, plans etc., most of them are with great museum experience. But unfortunately none of them could pass the problems called money. Because this is the root of the many museums problems nowadays.

You’ve quoted here many of the problems, with good understanding of them. Now I’ll try to explain some of them but basing on my museum’s situation. By the way, I’m totally surprised with the Brian’s description of how bad in British museum things are, because I always imagined that in Great Britain this institutions are managed perfectly, without such problems as a lack of money, lack of experts or properly back-up facilities. Now I know this was only my imagination and a dream about ideal place, while problems are the same here and there, maybe only the range is different.

My museum, as the biggest in Poland, it is the place where all the possible problems appearing and they’re very visible. Well, one problem is not existent. My museum as a National can’t be disband. However, it must have survived anyway in very hard times, when government finances were low (today is a little better). Biggest problems with that are in small towns or other cities where museums are under municipal administration. If city is small and poor, such museums are on the edge of insolvency.

First of all, in my opinion, Museum is created to preserve objects of cultural, social, art etc. meaning. Preserve is equal to do everything what is possible to keep them in good state of preservation, and there is no way to bring the object to ruin. That’s why I’m terrified with Brian’s lament. If there are 1500 objects of historical meaning, there is no way but to find money (sponsors, donations, volunteers) to make conservation. There is no explanation like “out of priority”. If that museum doesn’t want to keep this objects there is a legal way with government help, to take them to other, more interested in, museum – if not as a gift then as a deposit (e. g. on long term). On the other way, such treatment is a complete negation of museum existence and mission.

And what can I say, working in a “Military” department, which is “Military” only by name. We’ve got here armours, swords, sabres, knives, military uniforms, military badges and distinctions, fire-arms, objects from Poland, Europe, Orient, Africa, but also: civilian uniforms, civilian badges and distinctions, varia like military grave crosses (sic!), spoons and forks after Generals, replicas and other weird things! I CAN’T tell they’re out of my interests and let them to crumble! If they’re under my custody, I’m responsible for every nail which is out there.

Of course keeping them in good state wouldn’t be possible if not conservation workrooms. and here we’ve got another problem. My museum is real big place. You’ve got there not only military objects but also paintings, graphics, photographs, fabrics, decorated art (porcelain, glass, and many other objects of daily use!), furniture…, every one of them needs a conservation help. The queue is long and some objects are waiting even few years, but those on the edge of crumble, or those needed for exhibition purposes, are priority. Such conservation back-up is very, very expensive, but this is most important. Of course, once preserved object need a special treatment to keep him in good state of preservation for a long time! If not, all the work is useless and without end. This needs special magazines and exhibitions conditions, which are expensive as well, without money – there is dead end. Sometimes you need to search sponsors (what is visible in my museum from time to time). I admit that small museums are without any chances to create such back-up what is equal to the bad state of some of the objects. That’s why government help, donations and foundations are needed. Just imagine: if I have some rifle to preserve I have to go to the conservation workshop of: metal, wood and sometimes textile or decorative art (with stones and so on). How many specialists do you need for one, beautiful rifle to make it shining with full light again!

Polish museums were creating mostly of donations. Rivkin, I know you would like to see very monographic museums with only complete collections, but this is almost impossible. Of course, there are always plans to fill collections, and this is the ideal situation for every museum. That’s why there are still some purchasing on auctions or from individual sellers. To make a complete collection of some sort of historical objects nowadays, is possible only for museums that are focus only on one sort of objects, like Army Museum in Warsaw. They can systematically gather weapons of some sort, trying to close one collection after the other, of course assuming possibility: like money and appearing concrete objects on auctions and in other places (what is impossible with some sort of them!). My museum, with 20 different departments, when every single one needs something completely different, with limited funds, can only count on gifts and accidental chances!

I agree with Rivkin that descriptions are sometimes (lets say it delicate) not efficient. In most of the Polish museums you’ll find completely wrong and short explanations, especially in smaller ones, but those very big aren’t better anyway. Problems are lack of books, which could help to identify objects properly, lack of qualified personnel, and impossibility of knowing everything. For example in my military department are working three people including me. We’ve got ca. 10 000-12 000 objects from the whole world, from ancient times, through medieval, up to the 20th century. Can you posses such knowledge, and describe everything properly with precise date, manufacture and place, especially when most of the objects are completely out of your known world? You can always ask collectors and other scholars for help, but I can assure you, you cannot find them inerrable, and on the other hand, you will not find in my city any expert on kindjals, krises or many other types of weapons! Then you are alone (that’s why this forum seems to be great place ). I’ve done everything what was possible to make descriptions on my Arms and Armour exhibition as exact, as it was only possible. So Rivkin, would you be satisfied with descriptions like this, e.g:
----------------------------------------
ARM GUARDS
Poland, “Lviv manufacture”, 2nd half of the 17th century

Iron plate, silver plate, silk, fake rubies, inlaid with gold, gilded, niello, engraved, riveted rings

On the edge of guard arms, encrusted with gold excerption from the Old Testament. On the right arm guard: Therefore now let your hands be strengthened, and be ye valiant (II Samuel, chapter 2, 7); on the left one: Thy right hand, o Lord, is become glorious in power (Exodus, chapter 15, 6);

or:

INFANTRY OFFICER'S DRESS SMALL-SWORD
WITH SHEATH
Saxony, early 18th century

Steel, brass, wood, leather, etched, gilded, chased, engraved

Blade is etched and gilded on either side with the Polish-Saxon coat-of-arms, a monogram “AR” (Augustus Rex) and an inscription: RECTE FACIENDO / NEMINEM TIMEAS / TANDEM BONA / CAUSA TRIUMPHAT / GOT MIT UNS / NEC TIMERE / NEC TIMENDE
Gift of Janina Kornecka, 1947
----------------------------------------
About Rivkin’s idea of selling objects: it is not nonsensically. There were in Polish museums such exchanges objects for objects, some of the were real sensible, and some of them were just criminal, while one of the biggest museum with government back-up took (stole) from the other places best things. Except this infamous example, this is quite sensible and can solve many problems, but then you have to pass many law problems as well. Not everybody wants to do it, knowing how many troubles it will generate. The good way is long-term deposit.

The next problem is qualification of science workers that are obliged to work with objects, make exhibitions and catalogues, and render objects accessible for other scholars. Problem is not only they are not always experts in what are they doing but also that they have no time to do it. My duty is (except those above): to answer on inquires, make hires of objects to other museums (qualification and selection of objects, description, state of preservation, assessment, packing), choice objects for conservation, guiding groups of adults and childrem, keeping department in life (bureaucracy, supply…)… then you’ve to find time to write catalogue or make an interesting exhibition. When we will add bureaucracy, which is killing – you know that life in museum is not easy! You can say: let’s hire volunteers. Sometimes of course, we are accepting students or apprentices, they’re helpful sometimes, but it will not solve problems if they are only for a moment (2weeks or 1 month), and because of that intended to only additional work. By the way, you can’t just come to museum and say: I would like to repair some of your objects. Will you let to enter to your collection unknown man from the street? Without papers, and let’s be sincere, without acquaintance, your chances are low.

Well, I think I didn’t say anything new, but this is reality of museum today in my eyes.

regards
Michal

[Jens Nordlunde]

Michael,

Reading you mail makes me even more sad than reading Brian’s, as Brian saw the result, but you work/fight the problem every day, knowing the fight will be lost, if something drastic is not done. We, the collectors, can only be glad that someone will take up the fight, however difficult it is. I fear the problem is the same all over the World, in some places a bit better than in others, and a disaster in many places.

The economical problem is huge, and I doubt very much, that the solution will come from the governments in the different countries. I can only see one way, a combination of (big) sponsors, (small sponsors) memberships, museum shops and advertising the museum. I Denmark the Toejhumuseum makes fights between the Black and the White knight, on horse and on food, and this seems to attract a lot of people – especially the young ones, but then the parents have to go too, and they make sure the also visit the museum shop and the cafeteria. But I guess you know all this already – I wish I could help.

Jens

[B.I]

it seems i've hit a real nerve, and its good we all share the same views.
thank you michal for your insight, and none of us would dream this could ever happen in your museum :-)
jens and i discussed this some time ago, when the V&A put their weapons away. but, their reasons were valid and the main criteria of every museum is to keep the doors open, and in doing so they have to cater for the popular demands.
i hope no-one feels that all english museums are like this. far from it. the main institutions are passionate about their conservation and the pieces, even in storage, are well looked after.
however, every town has a museum of sorts, and every city has a number of them. with smaller cities, the museums tend to share teams. most will not have an arms or military department. and so, any arms or militaria will be thrown under the jurisdiction of another department. the head of this department/curator will be just as keen to look after what they have, but as its not their field of knowledge/possibility of being on display/funds or team to look after them they eventually fall into disrepair.
each piece i pulled out i showed to the curator, who promised it would be looked into, which i believe. but, the impression i got was the rest would have a long wait.
also, another point that was made. i'm sure the museum will gladly give the collection to another museum, but who is going to take it? the major institutions have enough trouble looking after their own. smaller museums dont have the time/space or experience to house these pieces so they are stuck with them.
also, majore pieces were sold off years ago, that i'm sure now woul dbe looked after and displayed. i know of a number of collections that dont exist anymore, that had items that were of national importance. at the time, however, no one was interested.
also, there is no way someone can walk off the street and offer to conserve them. i know from my own experience, there are enough collectors who claim to know what they are doing and destroy weapons in a shoddy attempt to restore them. (please know, i'm not hinting at forum collectors, but the novice at arms fairs). so, maybe less damage would occur in leaving them as they are in the hope that someone in-house can be persuaded to show an interest.

a good example, but will have to be a little vague. i know a museum with a large collection of arms. in the department i am interested in , there is no head, but it is overseen by other departments who, although very competent, dont have a real interest in the pieces in this part of the collection. there is a guy in administration, that has a personal passion for part of history, that runs alongside my own interests. and so, he spends all his spare time researching the arms collection, which includes updating the inventory, helping with the conservation and putting up with me now and then :-)

so, we can only hope to inspire, conspire and collude with all others with the same interest and hope things change for the better.