an insight into museums and collections

[Rivkin]

I probably lack the experience needed to post here, but since it never stopped me from posting in the past:

Sword collecting community is surprisingly small. Way smaller than a china and porceline community or a ninja-to community, and this most likely correspond to some extent to the general lack of interest among the public.

But I would certainly disagree that the big museums are not doing a good job in displaying arms because of such lack of interests. Almost every museum I've been to is simply horrible when it comes to displaying arms.

First of all - there are virtually no explanations, no history assigned to the weapons. I mean if you go to the museum of science and technology they are going to have one piece of technology and many supplementary materials, that will explain to you how this stuff works, what it's supposed to do, who invented it and so on.

When you go to a standard arms and armor gallery you are lucky to see plagues "caucasian dagger circa 1800-1900" (real example from _the_ museum). How it's going to inspire any interest in masses, I don't know. And this is true for everything - there will be a bunch of european spears signed "bunch of european spears" and a japanese sword with a name japanese sword. Big museums are going to have 10 such swords, small museums are going to have one wakizashi.

But would it be more interesting if they would show an evolution of a japanese sword ? The use of a japanese sword - couple of videos of tameshigiri for example ? The structure of a japanese sword ? Photographs of late samurais ? May be occasionally invite martial artists to chop things in public ?

The same thing goes for all the weapons you are lucky if a plague is going to say that it's wootz and it's a "traditional weapon of hindu people". You are not going to get any feeling of a solid and relatively complete information delivered to you.

Moreover a lot of these expositions are made of gifts. Unfortunately it leads to that instead of trying to have "one of everything", or at least some comprehensive representation of different cultures, they just going yo display 20 high quality shamshirs they've got, not worried in the least that it's completely disproportional to other sections, where you they have almost nothing. Please, sell the things you don't need, but do try to have a comprehensive collection !

I'm not talking about serious inability to accurately describe the weapons (good example is a caucasian dagger - for god's sake, the kindjal can be much more definitely attributed than this).

In short most of exhibit halls to me look like a garbage dump under a glass - throw some stuff here, throw some stuff there, who likes it will be impressed, for the rest we don't give a damn.

[B.I]

hi rivkin,
i hear what your saying, and of course i have to agree. but (of course there is always a 'but') a 10 year old school kid wont know, nor maybe not care what 'wootz' is. i think its hard not to judge a museum from a collector/enthusiasts point of view.
unfortunately, we dont keep museums open. if they charge us $20 a time to go in, and we all went in 3 times a week, then we can expect them to cater for our tastes. if you put on a displey, knowing the highest percentage of viewers will be under 4 foot (sorry for any virtically challenged adults), then you will write the information cards accordingly.
i can only speak for england, but i know that here the museums cant give their opinions. ok, maybe not cant, but are reluctant to. if you write a book on arms, you can happily put your neck on the line, and give your opinion. this opinion can clash against known knowleldge and anyone that reads it can either agree or disagree.
but, if you are part of an institution, you have more responsibility. now only do you have your predecessors, but also the beurocracy, the academics that float in and out etc. so, maybe its better to state the basic fact and let those interested enquire further. science and technology are better documented, and most 'inventions' hold thorough background information.
the purpose of a forum is to discuss and exhange opinions which works really well. i dont think any museum will want this happening in fornt of their displays and so simple is good.
as for the actual display, well i cant say anything. the wallace here is fabulous, as are the armouries. the V&A show a very small selection, but its well displayed. the smaller museums do what they can considering the budget. we dont have the funds here, that the met have and so what they do can only be classed as commendable.
i know the Met is outstanding in their displays, just from the friends that have been.

[Mark]

I think the central problem (aside from the money/manpower/time issue) is that few non-specialty museums have the personnel with the knowledge to create anything other than an aesthetically pleasing arrangement of weapons. It is not a criticism, it is just a fact. For example, I had a very similar experience to BI's when I went to the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History stacks to look at their SE Asian weapons. They did not have the outstanding quality that BI described, be regardless, the weapons were generally in a dire state of neglect and as far as being displayed, there is one dagger, and a case with a half-dozen dual-purpose weapon/tools such as maks and panabas. The curator of the Anthropology collection (which is where the weapons are) is a specialist is in native American culture, and artifacts, and they have no concervators with knowledge of edged weapons.

As Rivkin said, the collecting community is very small, and thus the field of experts could accurately identify, date, etc. edged weapons is also very small. There just aren't enough to go around, and not enough who would be hired by a museum (being "amateurs," you see -- something I always find amusing coming from someone whose "expertise" comes from the same place as that of the "amateur,"i.e., research and experience).

There isn't much point to my post, either. It is just a sad state of affairs. At least some museums put out catalogues of at least part of their off-shelf collections. But many museums have this great stuff that they cannot or will not use, yet they cannot or will not release it and rather let it literally crumble away in obscurity. Such a shame.

[fearn]

Just to present an opposing (and perhaps heartening?) view:

About a 20 years ago, I attended a touring exhibition put on by an armoury from either Switzerland or Austria (the details have slipped my mind--argh!). It was gorgeous, weaponry from the late Medieval/early Renaissance, well-displayed and dazzlingly curated.

Given the fascination with heroic movies (Lord of the Rings, Last Samurai, Matrix, Blade, etc), I think it's pretty goofy that no one is out there trying to set up a touring exhibition.

No one, by the way, includes us. While we obviously don't have the old European weapons to hand, some of the UK museums do, and perhaps it's time that they set up and sent out a touring company to show something like, "the evolution of the western sword."

Simply with our own resources from this board, we could probably mount an exhibition of "the Tao of the Dao (Dha, Dharb, daab, tao, to)" talking about the multifarious (possibly infamous) ways that single-edged blades have been built in Asia, how they spread, bred, and were adapted to local conditions, from 18th century weapons of conquest, to 20th century tourist items and martial arts toys, to farmer's tools throughout SE Asia.

I fully agree with the complaints that everyone's voiced. The question is: can we do something about it?

Fearn

[Conogre]

The topics of museum collections, displays, information and preservation have been discussed here in the past, and hopefully, will continue to be discussed in the future as well.
Likewise personal collections, preservation, display, disposition and motivation are also reoccuring topics that change as the membership changes, as does focus between regions and areas of intrest and the propriety of topics open for discussion, all of which I personally feel are of much more importance than many to most members realize.
Over and over, I've seen people who were pointed to this forum for information, often financially motivated, but none-the-less they came and more often than not were both impressed and thankful, almost invariably glad that they took the time.
While it may seem that this is moving away from the original topic, I think it's exactly the opposite, all leading to the fact that antiquities, both distant and recent, are rapidly disappearing and that above all, public interest has to be maintained in order for any change to be affected.
In the few years that I've been a member here, I've learned more than I ever dreamed possible and had my interest piqued each time it lagged, for whatever reason, and hopefully, this and other forums like it will continue to do so in the future, to the point that it may someday lead to museums and the laws pertaining to same being revised in countries around the world.
Since money is the prime motivator, whenever interest can be revived, be it by historically based motion pictures, educational television (which thankfully, seems to be on the increase), Ebay, antique shops, estate sales and of course, museum exhibits and collections all benefit by the sharing of knowledge and the revival of the urge to see and know about such things, particularly when it can be on a personal level.
I'd love to see the Home Shopping Network, for example, start buying and marketing individual collections on nationwide TV if it would lead to more and more pieces falling into the hands of the public where they could be cherished and valued, rather than stashed away in a catacomb somewhere, out of sight and lost, possibly forever.
All things have a finite existance, with articles often lasting longer than the knowledge and culture that surrounded them, from their creation, use (and abuse, where appropriate) and any interest that leads to discovery and preservation of same is bound to benificial to a certain extent, no matter how small.
If enough people descry the "lost collections" of museums, then possibly someday the laws will be changed and the vaults will be opened, viewed as another source of income, while individual collections continue at whatever level is possible, taking the future ahead for at least one more day at a time.Mike

[Andrew]

I join in Brian's lament. It may very well be the compulsive acquisitiveness of private collectors that ultimately preserve our martial heritage.

There are woefully few museums I would ever consider gifting my personal collection to. Even those institutions are really only attractive because of the individuals currently associated with them. People pass through and on, unfortunately.

[Ian]

This is a depressing topic but at the same time might present some opportunities. I have wondered whether we as a community of collectors might be part of the solution, especially in the area of conservation.

Part of my "job" as a collector is to maintain my collection in good condition, and even restore some items. I look on this as a responsibility to history and a courtesy to the original culture that produced these magnificent works of style and function. Trial and error are two ways of learning, but I dare say that with a few weeks of "tutoring" by a professional conservator expert in edged weapons, many of us could be pretty darn proficient in this area, at least at the simple stuff. Passionate interest makes for busy hands and careful work.

What is to stop us from being volunteer conservators for some of these institutions? Museums are not likely to let anyone off the street go to work on their collections, but again if we were to undertake a little training, perhaps with a "certificate" at the end, then that might open doors to allow us to be helpful.

Now I did use the word "volunteer." Museums are not likely to pay anyone to do things that are not a priority for them. But free labor is hard to refuse, and I can't imagine the materials necessary to do a lot of this work are going to be very costly -- I'm not talking about repairing gold koftgari, replacing precious stones, or doing delicate restorations. Removing rust, polishing and oiling blades, maintaining leather, etc. are simple and important contributions that we could make.

I'm looking forward to an interesting retirement in about 10 years. This is something I have thought about doing, but don't really know where to start. Perhaps others are already involved and can offer suggestions.

Ian.

[Battara]

Interesting idea, Ian. I share your sentiments, although for doing restorations pay would be nice (I like money ). Besides, in the past museums sometimes came to collectors for loaning materials for exibit and still do.