African Knife/Sword With Copper Wire Work

Luc LEFEBVRE · 23rd February 2010, 09:37 PM

Just rub it with a soft dry cloth, it will shine without being glossy.

Robert · 23rd February 2010, 10:16 PM

Luc,
Thank you for your reply and the advice on cleaning. This is probably as good a time as any to ask a question that I have been wondering about for quite a while now. If you have a piece that has either copper or brass on it and it has heavy green oxidation on it that is eating into the metal what is the best coarse of action to take to stop it and do you completely remove the oxidation or not? I have run into this problem a few times before (especially on items that were left for years in leather sheaths) and I always just cleaned the effected area completely free of the oxidation with penetrating oil and 0000 steel wool.

Robert

Luc LEFEBVRE · 25th February 2010, 08:02 PM

There are many "schools", but personnaly I clean.
Rust and oxidation are not patina for me, so I clean my knives.
Especially if it is green oxidation, it is easy to clean to "new" copper and brass, but it also easy to make old with specific products.And you don't need a long time to have a soft matt, unpolished patina, which is better,for me , than a bad green.

Lew · 25th February 2010, 09:10 PM

I agree with Luc you should clean the piece if there is any active rust of green oxidation that could damage the piece. If we can conserve our antiques properly they will be around for many future generations to enjoy.

Robert · 25th February 2010, 09:11 PM

Luc and Lew,
Thank you for your help on the cleaning procedure. The knife has arrived today and I will post more pictures later. By looking at it I would say that it is easily late 19th to early 20th century.

Thanks again.

Robert

Robert · 26th February 2010, 02:00 AM

Hello everyone. Here are the pictures that I promised. The knife does have some damage to the wire work that should not be too difficult to repair. One of the horns on the scabbard is also partially broken and will require a little more effort in its repair. The pictures are of the knife as it arrived without anything being done to it at all. Very nicely decorated blade. The hilt on the knife is bound in some form of reptile skin (the scales are quite obvious) and then the wire. The wooden scabbard is also covered in skin of undetermined origin and then wire. I could not get a decent picture of the hilt that would show the scales though but will try again tomorrow. It looks to me that the blade had been stored in the scabbard and had become stuck from the shrinkage to the wood and skin and the damage was probably caused when the owner tried to forcibly remove it.

I would appreciate your comments and advice on what to do as far as restoration goes, or anything else for that matter. If anyone would like a picture of any particular area of the knife or scabbard just ask. Thank you for your help.

Robert

p.s.
Picture of skin on hilt added.

Tim Simmons · 26th February 2010, 06:28 PM

Really super! If it were mine I would just rub the copper as Luc says perhaps a drop of oil on the cloth. I would clean the blade to what suits my eye and sort out that curl at one of the spiky bits neat the handle. Great find.

Robert · 27th February 2010, 12:24 AM

Hello Tim,
I think that I will very carefully do just that. I also think that I will use a couple of drops of super glue to secure the one partially broken horn on the scabbard. What has me worried the most is the amount of shrinkage that there is in the wood and hide covering under the copper wire. They have both shrunken to the point that the wire is extremely loose and moves around with the slightest touch. The blade can be easily cleaned up just enough to show the decoration better and then ren-waxed for protection. The wire on the knife should also tidy up easily, I hope.

Thank you all again for your help and interest in this.

Robert

Dom · 3rd February 2013, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luc LEFEBVRE

There are many "schools", but personnaly I clean.
Rust and oxidation are not patina for me, so I clean my knives.
Especially if it is green oxidation, it is easy to clean to "new" copper and brass, but it also easy to make old with specific products.And you don't need a long time to have a soft matt, unpolished patina, which is better,for me , than a bad green.

Hi Luc
I know, after argued about this topic, it's not the course of action for everyone
I share absolutely your position, according with my understanding;
- dirt, old oil, rust
aren't "patina", and weapons have to be maintained in good shape,
as well as "Sajen" did it, with his beautiful old Yakoma knife
not necessary to get the blade "white", but clean, that's it

"Sagen" very good job, your knife it's amazing

à +

Dom

Sajen · 3rd February 2013, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Luc
I know, after argued about this topic, it's not the course of action for everyone
I share absolutely your position, according with my understanding;
- dirt, old oil, rust
aren't "patina", and weapons have to be maintained in good shape,
as well as "Sajen" did it, with his beautiful old Yakoma knife
not necessary to get the blade "white", but clean, that's it

"Sagen" very good job, your knife it's amazing

à +

Dom

Hi Dom,

sadly I have to say that this indeed beautiful Yakoma knife belong to Robert!

T. Koch · 3rd February 2013, 06:30 PM

Ok, since we are doing necromancy on this one, let me tell you that the reptile skin on the hilt is that of a small crocodile.

Very funky sword Robert and great restoration work you've done on it!

All the best, - Thor

Dom · 3rd February 2013, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Dom,
sadly I have to say that this indeed beautiful Yakoma knife belong to Robert!

deeply sorry for giving you a false joy,
and have attributed to Caesar, what belongs to Jules ...

or at least to Robert

I plead in my defense ... my advanced age

my sincerest apologies

all the best

à +

Dom

Sajen · 3rd February 2013, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

deeply sorry for giving you a false joy,
and have attributed to Caesar, what belongs to Jules ...

or at least to Robert

I plead in my defense ... my advanced age

my sincerest apologies

all the best

à +

Dom

Really no problem Dom, the only problem: it really don't belong to my collection!

26th February 2010, 02:00 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello everyone. Here are the pictures that I promised. The knife does have some damage to the wire work that should not be too difficult to repair. One of the horns on the scabbard is also partially broken and will require a little more effort in its repair. The pictures are of the knife as it arrived without anything being done to it at all. Very nicely decorated blade. The hilt on the knife is bound in some form of reptile skin (the scales are quite obvious) and then the wire. The wooden scabbard is also covered in skin of undetermined origin and then wire. I could not get a decent picture of the hilt that would show the scales though but will try again tomorrow. It looks to me that the blade had been stored in the scabbard and had become stuck from the shrinkage to the wood and skin and the damage was probably caused when the owner tried to forcibly remove it. I would appreciate your comments and advice on what to do as far as restoration goes, or anything else for that matter. If anyone would like a picture of any particular area of the knife or scabbard just ask. Thank you for your help. Robert p.s. Picture of skin on hilt added. Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 26th February 2010 at 03:22 AM.

23rd February 2010, 09:37 PM	#1
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 473	Just rub it with a soft dry cloth, it will shine without being glossy.

23rd February 2010, 10:16 PM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Luc, Thank you for your reply and the advice on cleaning. This is probably as good a time as any to ask a question that I have been wondering about for quite a while now. If you have a piece that has either copper or brass on it and it has heavy green oxidation on it that is eating into the metal what is the best coarse of action to take to stop it and do you completely remove the oxidation or not? I have run into this problem a few times before (especially on items that were left for years in leather sheaths) and I always just cleaned the effected area completely free of the oxidation with penetrating oil and 0000 steel wool. Robert

25th February 2010, 08:02 PM	#3
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 473	There are many "schools", but personnaly I clean. Rust and oxidation are not patina for me, so I clean my knives. Especially if it is green oxidation, it is easy to clean to "new" copper and brass, but it also easy to make old with specific products.And you don't need a long time to have a soft matt, unpolished patina, which is better,for me , than a bad green.

25th February 2010, 09:10 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I agree with Luc you should clean the piece if there is any active rust of green oxidation that could damage the piece. If we can conserve our antiques properly they will be around for many future generations to enjoy.

25th February 2010, 09:11 PM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Luc and Lew, Thank you for your help on the cleaning procedure. The knife has arrived today and I will post more pictures later. By looking at it I would say that it is easily late 19th to early 20th century. Thanks again. Robert

26th February 2010, 06:28 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,890	Really super! If it were mine I would just rub the copper as Luc says perhaps a drop of oil on the cloth. I would clean the blade to what suits my eye and sort out that curl at one of the spiky bits neat the handle. Great find.

27th February 2010, 12:24 AM	#8
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Tim, I think that I will very carefully do just that. I also think that I will use a couple of drops of super glue to secure the one partially broken horn on the scabbard. What has me worried the most is the amount of shrinkage that there is in the wood and hide covering under the copper wire. They have both shrunken to the point that the wire is extremely loose and moves around with the slightest touch. The blade can be easily cleaned up just enough to show the decoration better and then ren-waxed for protection. The wire on the knife should also tidy up easily, I hope. Thank you all again for your help and interest in this. Robert

3rd February 2013, 06:30 PM	#11
T. Koch Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Mother North Posts: 189	Ok, since we are doing necromancy on this one, let me tell you that the reptile skin on the hilt is that of a small crocodile. Very funky sword Robert and great restoration work you've done on it! All the best, - Thor