Spanish colonial, Malay pirate or...

celtan · 11th February 2010, 11:28 AM

Hi Eley,

Depends on what you mean by a cup-hilt. The real cuphilts saw the peak of their popularity in the 1650s, and kept on being used and made until the very early 18th C (~1710).

The smallsword began its ascendancy in the 1680s, and in fact some arrived to America in the 1670-80s. By 1710 they were already in ascendancy over the cuphilt.

Some cuphilts survived in the dry american south-west longer and were used until much later, but their use was vestigial, as the colonists would use anything they could get their hands on.

If you are including the bivalve-guards or clamshells, such as the spanish M1728 and the later M1788 and M1796-1800 as cuphilts, then indeed they saw use until the very early Napoleonic Wars, mainly in cavalry units. In fact, their hexagonal or "a tres mesas" blades kept being reused until even after the American Civil War.

OTOH, the spanish bivalve M1728, the boat-sail M1788 (a la vela) and the M1796-1800 dragoneras were not realy cup-hilts.

Best regards

Manolo

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

I know that the cup-hilts lasted as late as the first quarter of the 19th and this one seems to have honest age to it.

M ELEY · 11th February 2010, 01:02 PM

Hello Manolo and thanks for replying.
Yes, I remember this discussion about cup-hilts and it was my mistake to use that term. What I meant was, to my knowledge, even the clamshell and bi-valve guards seemed to have disappeared by mid-19th c. The later espadas seemed to resemble more of the so-called D-guard style with plain wood grips or the more fanciful pieces with quillons of serpent heads, horse heads carved from horn. Gone were the disc-like guards and even those with the separate bars bolted to the hilt had disappeared. The later espadas were headed for their transition into the modern machete. Thus, I used the wrong term (cup-hilt instead of clamshell), but meant the earlier form from the period of 1700 thru first quarter of the 19th.

11th February 2010, 01:02 PM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Hello Manolo and thanks for replying. Yes, I remember this discussion about cup-hilts and it was my mistake to use that term. What I meant was, to my knowledge, even the clamshell and bi-valve guards seemed to have disappeared by mid-19th c. The later espadas seemed to resemble more of the so-called D-guard style with plain wood grips or the more fanciful pieces with quillons of serpent heads, horse heads carved from horn. Gone were the disc-like guards and even those with the separate bars bolted to the hilt had disappeared. The later espadas were headed for their transition into the modern machete. Thus, I used the wrong term (cup-hilt instead of clamshell), but meant the earlier form from the period of 1700 thru first quarter of the 19th.