Basket hilted swords

Jim McDougall · 8th February 2010, 05:35 AM

Cathey, this brass basket hilt is pretty fantastic!
I really like the professional format in which you present these, and its great to have them shared here as references, it really is very much appreciated.

I think the period you propose is quite accurate.Interestingly Anthony Darling in 1974 noted that British brass hilted cavalry swords are rarely seen, but then curiously notes that the 3rd Kings Own Regiment of Dragoons had them (not necessarily of this type). I agree with the grenadier assessment you note, and would think of this as an English rather than Scottish basket hilt.

While Mazansky is great in assigning classifications, there is little information added in order to accomplish any pertinant research other than noting his classification numerals for identification. It would be helpful if the black and white photos noted whether the hilts are brass or not, as with the examples of this hilt shown. The book overall is outstanding as a reference for typology of basket type hilts, but for that aspect alone, and I really look forward to a reference on basket hilts with some attention to symbolism and historical details.

The interesting blade marking certainly suggests a Solingen blade, and this 'anchor' type mark is closely associated with devices like this in merchants marks, as well as makers marks of the late 16th through the 17th century. Despite these cross and orb, anchor, cross and patibulum type devices being associated with certain makers it is believed many became simply ornamental as talismanic marks or of course implied quality.

Where is the arrow marking situated?

Again Cathey thank you so much for these outstanding posts!!!!

All the best,
Jim

Rikkn · 24th February 2010, 11:48 PM

Here is one for you Cathey

..... This one was a prop for the 60's British T.V. series " The Avenger " ( hung on the wall of John Steeds office ).

Rikkn · 26th February 2010, 01:51 PM

Added picture - didn't work first time.

Rikkn · 26th February 2010, 01:52 PM

Trying again.....

Cathey · 27th February 2010, 04:11 AM

Hi Rikkn

Appears to be a copy of an early swept hilt rapier, not a basket hilt.

Cheers Cathey

Jim McDougall · 27th February 2010, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikkn

Here is one for you Cathey

..... This one was a prop for the 60's British T.V. series " The Avenger " ( hung on the wall of John Steeds office ).

Hey man, who can remember the 60's!!!???

Really though, gotta love the drapery rod quillon terminals.
Thanks Rikkn,

All the best,
Jim

celtan · 27th February 2010, 02:08 PM

Yep. Gotta remember the cool, leather clad Emma Peel...

Hey, kids got memories too!

: )

BTW, the lasso-guard sword looks too nicely designed for such an uninspiring crossguard/quillions.

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hey man, who can remember the 60's!!!???

Really though, gotta love the drapery rod quillon terminals.
Thanks Rikkn,

All the best,
Jim

fernando · 27th February 2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtan

... BTW, the lasso-guard sword looks too nicely designed for such an uninspiring crossguard/quillions...

En absoluto

.

Jim McDougall · 27th February 2010, 05:32 PM

Well observed Manolo and Nando!
Good example of a rapier fabricated 'by the numbers'!!! and as Cathey notes, not a basket hilt......which would have followed different blueprints .

And yeah, I can see Emma Peel vaguely through the purple haze!!!

All the best,
Jim

Mark Deyer · 5th February 2014, 04:10 PM

Hi,
Here,s my contribution a 1731 dated one recently picked up from the family any info on it would be helpful.the inside of the cross gaurd is coverd in a black pitch type material and it is evident that it once covered the out side of the hilt as well the all is original,only thing ever done to it it has a old tape repair to the bottom of the scabbard.
Thanks Mark

26th February 2010, 01:52 PM	#4
Rikkn Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ormond by the Sea, Fl Posts: 50	picture Trying again..... Attached Images

27th February 2010, 04:11 AM	#5
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Definitely a Prop Hi Rikkn Appears to be a copy of an early swept hilt rapier, not a basket hilt. Cheers Cathey

5th February 2014, 04:10 PM	#10
Mark Deyer Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 5	British Basket Hilt Hi, Here,s my contribution a 1731 dated one recently picked up from the family any info on it would be helpful.the inside of the cross gaurd is coverd in a black pitch type material and it is evident that it once covered the out side of the hilt as well the all is original,only thing ever done to it it has a old tape repair to the bottom of the scabbard. Thanks Mark Attached Images

8th February 2010, 05:35 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Cathey, this brass basket hilt is pretty fantastic! I really like the professional format in which you present these, and its great to have them shared here as references, it really is very much appreciated. I think the period you propose is quite accurate.Interestingly Anthony Darling in 1974 noted that British brass hilted cavalry swords are rarely seen, but then curiously notes that the 3rd Kings Own Regiment of Dragoons had them (not necessarily of this type). I agree with the grenadier assessment you note, and would think of this as an English rather than Scottish basket hilt. While Mazansky is great in assigning classifications, there is little information added in order to accomplish any pertinant research other than noting his classification numerals for identification. It would be helpful if the black and white photos noted whether the hilts are brass or not, as with the examples of this hilt shown. The book overall is outstanding as a reference for typology of basket type hilts, but for that aspect alone, and I really look forward to a reference on basket hilts with some attention to symbolism and historical details. The interesting blade marking certainly suggests a Solingen blade, and this 'anchor' type mark is closely associated with devices like this in merchants marks, as well as makers marks of the late 16th through the 17th century. Despite these cross and orb, anchor, cross and patibulum type devices being associated with certain makers it is believed many became simply ornamental as talismanic marks or of course implied quality. Where is the arrow marking situated? Again Cathey thank you so much for these outstanding posts!!!! All the best, Jim

24th February 2010, 11:48 PM	#2
Rikkn Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ormond by the Sea, Fl Posts: 50	Here is one for you Cathey ..... This one was a prop for the 60's British T.V. series " The Avenger " ( hung on the wall of John Steeds office ).

26th February 2010, 01:51 PM	#3
Rikkn Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ormond by the Sea, Fl Posts: 50	Added picture - didn't work first time.

27th February 2010, 05:32 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Well observed Manolo and Nando! Good example of a rapier fabricated 'by the numbers'!!! and as Cathey notes, not a basket hilt......which would have followed different blueprints . And yeah, I can see Emma Peel vaguely through the purple haze!!! All the best, Jim