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[Norman McCormick]

Hi Richard,
A right handsome trio, can you post photographs of the complete blades?
My Regards,
Norman.

[katana]

Hi Richard,
very nice indeed (unfortunately there isn't a 'smilie' for Envious )

Regards David

[fernando]

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Richard,
very nice indeed (unfortunately there isn't a 'smilie' for Envious )

Regards David

.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

.

Good one Nando!!!! LOL!!!!

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Richard,
Thank you so much for posting these remarkable and even better, beautifully provenanced examples!!!
While the officers sabres of course, reveal distinct characteristics to certain makers, the nuances among the troopers issue sabres are if course much more subtle if I am not mistaken. It would seem that as officers sabres were often special ordered and received much more attention, makers must have enjoyed adding special touches in pride of workmanship.
The rank and file swords were more assembly line and the simple stamp with name was the extent of identity in fulfilling the contract requirements.

The yeomanry swords are certainly an esoteric area of regulation pattern forms, and it would be interesting to know more of them. Please help me recall if you would...what exactly were 'fencible' regiments?
Also, if I understand correctly, the yeomanry's were very much city or regional militias that seem much like national guard, and were activated in time of war? If they went to war were a certain number left to guard the home front?

I once had a M1796 sabre which was gilt brass stirrup hilt, ivory grip, and there was a rectangular fixture on the center of the guard which extended perpandicularly for a sword knot. The blade was blued and gilt with the usual floral and military motifs. I always thought this type hilt, especially with ivory grip would have been for a yeomanry officer. ..was that correct?

Thank you again for sharing all of these great British cavalry swords, and sorry for bombarding with questions....but its a great pleasure to have you here to ask

All the very best,
Jim

[Richard]

Hi Jim

You are, of course, correct to say that P1796 LC trooper's swords are pretty much all alike in detail. It was the additional elaboration on officer's swords that allowed the various maklers to impose their own style on the detail. Of course, the degree of ostentation on officer's sword is very likely closely connected with his personal finances and that's what makes yeomanry swords interesting. When the units were first raised in the 1790's, the yeomanry were required to personally furnish all of their own equipment, uniform, weapons and horse. These volunteer units were not for those without a few shillings to rub together. They were gentleman's clubs for the well-heeled middle classes and tradesmen of the time and therefore it is not at all uncommon to find that every member, troopers as well as officers, carried "officer's" swords with decorated blades. This was certainly the case with the Loyal Birmingham Light Horse Volunteers who counted James Woolley, Francis Deakin, Henry Osborn and Thomas Ketland amongst its numbers. I also have a sword of the Liverpool Light Horse from c. 1803 which was carried by a trooper but which has all the officer's details and an etched blade.

Re the sword you describe that you once owned, it could well have been a yeomanry sword. Whilst, in general, the yeomanry did follow the regulation patterns, they also had the scope to go "off-piste" as it were so one does find a number of strange styles being carried by volunteer units. There was an unfortunate propensity a few years ago for people to immediate tag anything they didn't understand or anything that was a little different as yeomanry. I do not subscribe at all to that idea, yes many unusual swords are yeomanry but I've seen some pretty wierd stuff carried by the regular army too.

Jim, you also ask about Fencible regiments. Well, I hope you've got alnight because getting all of the different volunteer units straight in one's head might lead someone to end up in a straight jacket! But I'll try! In a nutshell and sort of in chronological order:

The Militia – Supposedly the first line of home defence since the middle of the 17th century. This was a form of conscripted service raised on a county basis. Each county was required by Statute to raise a fixed quota of men. It was pretty ineffective and highly unpopular!

Fencibles - were volunteer regiments (infantry and cavalry) first raised in the United Kingdom and in the Colonies during the American War of Independence. They were usually temporary and composed of local volunteers commanded by Regular Army officers. Their role was confined to garrison and patrol duties freeing the regular Army units to perform offensive operations. They had no liability for overseas service.

Cavalry & Infantry Loyal Associations – sporadic raising of volunteer infantry and cavalry which started after the French Revolution in 1789. Again confined to local defence to protect the constitution against revolutionary and republican elements. They were generally short-lived and tended to fade away after the threat of revolution had passed in the early years of the 19th century

Volunteer infantry and Gentlmen & Yeomanry - This was the really big volunteer movement which came about after the French had executed Louis XVI and declared war on most of Europe. The government passed a number of acts of parliament between 1792 and 1796 calling for the raising of volunteers. Volunteer infantry units sprang up over the whole country and the first Gentlman & Yeomanry Cavalry was raised in 1794. The xenophobia and fear of invasion is difficult to understand nowdays but it was real and urgent at the time and military fever swept the country. At one point I believe there were more than 650,000 volunteers under arms, numbers which completely dwarf the regular army establishment. There is a wonderful and amusing passage written by Sir Walter Scott in his "Antiquary". I know I'm going on a bit but I'm on my favourite subject so here's what he had to say:

"I came to consult my lawyer, he was clothed in a dragoon's dress, belted and casqued and about to mount a charger, which his writing clerk (habited as a sharpshooter) walked to and fro before his door. I went to scold my Agent for having sent me to advise with a madman. He had stuck in his head the plume which in more sober days he weilded between his fingers, and figured as an artillery officer. My mercer had his spontoon in his hand as if he measured cloth by that instrument instead of the legitimate yard. The banker's clerk, who was directed to sum my cash account, blundered three times, being disordered by the recollection of his military tellings-off at the morning's drill. I was ill and sent for a surgeon: He came, but valour had so fired his eye, And such a falchion glittered by his thigh, That by the Gods with a load of steel, I thought he came to murder, not to heal!

Sorry for the length!

Richard

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Richard,
Thank you so much for posting these remarkable and even better, beautifully provenanced examples!!!
While the officers sabres of course, reveal distinct characteristics to certain makers, the nuances among the troopers issue sabres are if course much more subtle if I am not mistaken. It would seem that as officers sabres were often special ordered and received much more attention, makers must have enjoyed adding special touches in pride of workmanship.
The rank and file swords were more assembly line and the simple stamp with name was the extent of identity in fulfilling the contract requirements.

The yeomanry swords are certainly an esoteric area of regulation pattern forms, and it would be interesting to know more of them. Please help me recall if you would...what exactly were 'fencible' regiments?
Also, if I understand correctly, the yeomanry's were very much city or regional militias that seem much like national guard, and were activated in time of war? If they went to war were a certain number left to guard the home front?

I once had a M1796 sabre which was gilt brass stirrup hilt, ivory grip, and there was a rectangular fixture on the center of the guard which extended perpandicularly for a sword knot. The blade was blued and gilt with the usual floral and military motifs. I always thought this type hilt, especially with ivory grip would have been for a yeomanry officer. ..was that correct?

Thank you again for sharing all of these great British cavalry swords, and sorry for bombarding with questions....but its a great pleasure to have you here to ask

All the very best,
Jim

[Richard]

Of course Norman, here you go:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Richard,
A right handsome trio, can you post photographs of the complete blades?
My Regards,
Norman.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Richard

Of course Norman, here you go:

Fantastic

The condition of these swords is superb; looks like they didn't even spent their nuptial night

Fernando

[Richard]

Well their main purpose was to impress ladies at parties! So you want to see a battered one then? How about this, no blue & gilt left at all, in fact service sharpening has removed all decoration along cutting edge ; hilt and scabbard very battered

But ..... on the other hand, its was the sword of Lt James Chatterton of the 12th Light Dragoons, carried at Salamanca, Vittoria, Nive, Nivelle, Quatre Bras and ................WATERLOO!

Richard

Originally Posted by fernando

Fantastic

The condition of these swords is superb; looks like they didn't even spent their nuptial night

Fernando

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Richard

Well their main purpose was to impress ladies at parties! So you want to see a battered one then? How about this, no blue & gilt left at all, in fact service sharpening has removed all decoration along cutting edge ; hilt and scabbard very battered

But ..... on the other hand, its was the sword of Lt James Chatterton of the 12th Light Dragoons, carried at Salamanca, Vittoria, Nive, Nivelle, Quatre Bras and ................WATERLOO!

Richard

Now that's talking!
The question is: which one has more charm? The birdcall couple or Chatterton's warrior?
Don't pay attention Richard ... just kidding .
But anyway, the weigth of history, weighs heavier.
Fernando

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by fernando

Now that's talking!
The question is: which one has more charm? The birdcall couple or Chatterton's warrior?
Don't pay attention Richard ... just kidding .
But anyway, the weigth of history, weighs heavier.
Fernando

Without doubt a very handsome trio of dandies but my vote has to go to the warrior.

Richard,
Many thanks for the photographs, a very interesting group.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Richard,
Would I be correct in assuming that the 'comma' ears were design elements to officers weapons and had no practical purpose? Was this element ever seen in troopers swords? I have an 1821 L.C. Troopers Sabre marked to Osborn independently on the scabbard, blade and hilt but it has what I would call 'normal' ears and I just wondered if there was a variant of the 1796 L.C. or 1821 L.C. Troopers issue with this 'comma' feature?
My Regards,
Norman.