Knobkerries x2 , ID and comments welcome.

katana · 18th January 2010, 10:59 PM

Thanks Colin,
for confirming Lew's opinion. It is disappointing that there is little 'dedicated' literature on African knobkerries/clubs/ throwing sticks. Nearly every 'knobkerrie' sold on eBay is stated as Zulu.....other than the Runga's which are obviously 'different'.
A few years ago I tried to discover which regions used which specie of wood for spear shafts.....and was completely unsucessful. I had hoped that ID'ing the spear shaft species could help give a more positive ID to a spear.
It seems that the same holds for clubs ...very little is documented as to the wood used.

Will 'aim my sights' eastwards and try and find similar clubs. I do think this is genuinely old and it would be great to ID it.

Just to illustrate the point about the diversity style and degree of workmanship of S.A knobkerries ...

Below is a knobkerrie collected from Natal Province, Nqutu District

Best
David

.

Lew · 19th January 2010, 12:27 PM

David

Here is how I break it down as far as wood and style. The bicolored knobkerries are mostly Nguni and after 1915-20. Most mono medium brown ones are older 1879-1900 or so and tend to be Swazi or Natal Zulu. . I will try and get a pic together later on in the week and confirm it with a someone who has more experience and has lived in that area.

katana · 19th January 2010, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

David

Here is how I break it down as far as wood and style. The bicolored knobkerries are mostly Nguni and after 1915-20. Most mono medium brown ones are older 1879-1900 or so and tend to be Swazi or Natal Zulu. There are other styles such as the which have the eagle claw/beak head that ar Xshosa. I will try and get a pic together later on in the week and confirm it with a someone who has more experience and has lived in that area.

Hi Lew,
thanks for the info.....it also nice to see that you corroborate what I was previously told about the bi-coloured versions

Look forward to the pics, thank you

Lew · 19th January 2010, 07:06 PM

I put together a list and will try my best to identify them correctly.

Here is some facts on the Zulu

The Nguni peoples are classified into three large subgroups, the Northern Nguni, the Southern Nguni, and the Ndebele. The Zulu and the Swazi are among the Northern Nguni. The Xhosa are the largest Southern Nguni society, but the neighboring Thembu and Mpondo are also well known Southern Nguni societies, often described as subgroups of the Xhosa. Each of these groups is a heterogeneous grouping of smaller (also heterogeneous) ethnic groups.

Top= Two Northern Nguni clubs to right is also the same.

Next= Swazi
Next two=Northern Nguni
Last= Zulu Natal
Below is a group of Swazi men with knobkerries.
I will post more examples as I come across them.

katana · 20th January 2010, 12:40 AM

Thanks Lew, I appreciate it

Regards David

18th January 2010, 10:59 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thanks Colin, for confirming Lew's opinion. It is disappointing that there is little 'dedicated' literature on African knobkerries/clubs/ throwing sticks. Nearly every 'knobkerrie' sold on eBay is stated as Zulu.....other than the Runga's which are obviously 'different'. A few years ago I tried to discover which regions used which specie of wood for spear shafts.....and was completely unsucessful. I had hoped that ID'ing the spear shaft species could help give a more positive ID to a spear. It seems that the same holds for clubs ...very little is documented as to the wood used. Will 'aim my sights' eastwards and try and find similar clubs. I do think this is genuinely old and it would be great to ID it. Just to illustrate the point about the diversity style and degree of workmanship of S.A knobkerries ... Below is a knobkerrie collected from Natal Province, Nqutu District Best David . Attached Images

19th January 2010, 12:27 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	David Here is how I break it down as far as wood and style. The bicolored knobkerries are mostly Nguni and after 1915-20. Most mono medium brown ones are older 1879-1900 or so and tend to be Swazi or Natal Zulu. . I will try and get a pic together later on in the week and confirm it with a someone who has more experience and has lived in that area. Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 19th January 2010 at 06:41 PM.

19th January 2010, 07:06 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I put together a list and will try my best to identify them correctly. Here is some facts on the Zulu The Nguni peoples are classified into three large subgroups, the Northern Nguni, the Southern Nguni, and the Ndebele. The Zulu and the Swazi are among the Northern Nguni. The Xhosa are the largest Southern Nguni society, but the neighboring Thembu and Mpondo are also well known Southern Nguni societies, often described as subgroups of the Xhosa. Each of these groups is a heterogeneous grouping of smaller (also heterogeneous) ethnic groups. Top= Two Northern Nguni clubs to right is also the same. Next= Swazi Next two=Northern Nguni Last= Zulu Natal Below is a group of Swazi men with knobkerries. I will post more examples as I come across them. Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 19th January 2010 at 07:30 PM.

20th January 2010, 12:40 AM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thanks Lew, I appreciate it Regards David