Please help on 1796 HC sword marks

[celtan]

Beautiful results.

I must confess to be envious of your abilities, I have no idea how to dismount a hilt or replate silver finish...

Best

M

Originally Posted by Ian Knight

The sword fitted with its new grip, made by myself. Rivet still to replace.
Ian

[Jim McDougall]

Absolutely magnificent Ian!!! You have done a wonderful job at maintaining the integrity of this great old warrior!! I love the M1796 heavies!!

All the best,
Jim

[Ian Knight]

Thanks very much guys. I may write a illustrated list of instructions when I make my next grip.

David,
The grip was made from beech wood shaped and covered in leather. The grip was made out of two pieces. The tang is marked out on one piece and cut out to the full depth of the tang. The second piece is then glued to it.

Manolo,
Taking this sword apart was fairly easy as the leather buffer/washer was placed between the blade and hilt not just slid over the blade. I cut the old leather buffer away and was then able to push the blade backwards exposing about 2 mm of the tang. The peened over end of the tang can then be filed off allowing you to dis-assemble the sword. Hey presto.

Jim,
I have always wanted a P1796 HC sword but could never afford one. I bought this old thing at a fair price because of the grip.

Ian


Ian

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ian,
The M1796 heavy was one of my very first swords, I think I got it in 1966, and it was/is pretty beat up. The scabbard was mismatched (as often found), the blade welded back together at center, and it was by T Craven.
I still have it, couldnt ever let it go In those days these things were around a hundred bucks usually if in good condition. I think I spent 50, but hey that was a lotta money then....gas was still 27cents a gallon!!!

All the best,
Jim

[Ian Knight]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Ian,
The M1796 heavy was one of my very first swords, I think I got it in 1966, and it was/is pretty beat up. The scabbard was mismatched (as often found), the blade welded back together at center, and it was by T Craven.
I still have it, couldnt ever let it go In those days these things were around a hundred bucks usually if in good condition. I think I spent 50, but hey that was a lotta money then....gas was still 27cents a gallon!!!

All the best,
Jim

Hello Jim,
I wish that I had bought one when my interest in the Napoleonic Wars started after seeing the film 'Waterloo' back in the 70s. Now they sell at auction in the U.K. for up to £3000 (nearly $5000).
I'd like to see a picture of your P1796 HC sword please.
Ian

[Richard]

All, re the markings that have been debated, I don't want to complicate matters but Portugal was not the only country to which Britain sent the P1796 heavy sword. Some 2000 P1796 HC swords were sent to Sweden around 1807 and the Swedes adopted the exact pattern as their own M1808 cavalry pallasch* (although after Bernadotte become Crown Prince Charles John in 1810, they remodelled to a more French style of sword).

Ian - very nice grip restoration.

Jim - one of my 1796HC swords is by Thomas Craven who was in business from 1800-1801. Brian Robson was in error when he gave Craven's dates as 1818-20

Richard

* Source : Svenska Blankvapen by Olaf P Berg

[Richard]

But talking about Portugal, below is a p1796 HC officer's sword which has a "JR" cypher on the blade. I believe this is the cypher used by John of Portugal when Prince Regent from 1799 - 1816 (the cypher became JR IV after he became king). I think sword was used by a British officer in the Portugese army after it was reorganised by Beresford in 1808 at the command of Wellington and that it originally had a GR cypher which had been polished out and re-engraved "JR"

Richard

[Ian Knight]

Originally Posted by Richard

All, re the markings that have been debated, I don't want to complicate matters but Portugal was not the only country to which Britain sent the P1796 heavy sword. Some 2000 P1796 HC swords were sent to Sweden around 1807 and the Swedes adopted the exact pattern as their own M1808 cavalry pallasch* (although after Bernadotte become Crown Prince Charles John in 1810, they remodelled to a more French style of sword).

Ian - very nice grip restoration.

Jim - one of my 1796HC swords is by Thomas Craven who was in business from 1800-1801. Brian Robson was in error when he gave Craven's dates as 1818-20

Richard

* Source : Svenska Blankvapen by Olaf P Berg

Thanks Richard,
I am not 100% happy with it. When sizing and finishing the wooden part of the grip you have to make the grip slightly smaller to allow for the thickness of the leather covering. I actually made the grip a little too small and so there is a slight gap between the finished grip and the backpiece.
I might make another.
Ian

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Richard

All, re the markings that have been debated, I don't want to complicate matters but Portugal was not the only country to which Britain sent the P1796 heavy sword. Some 2000 P1796 HC swords were sent to Sweden around 1807 and the Swedes adopted the exact pattern as their own M1808 cavalry pallasch* (although after Bernadotte become Crown Prince Charles John in 1810, they remodelled to a more French style of sword).

Ian - very nice grip restoration.

Jim - one of my 1796HC swords is by Thomas Craven who was in business from 1800-1801. Brian Robson was in error when he gave Craven's dates as 1818-20

Richard

* Source : Svenska Blankvapen by Olaf P Berg

Thank you so much Richard for the input on Craven. I remember all the years I researched that sword, the 1818 date seemed odd as this appeared a much earlier sword. The references I had were the old May & Annis based ones with the directory records.
Its great to have updated references, and I know you're always researching as evidenced by the detail in the outstanding articles you present!!!

All the best,
Jim

[fernando]

Hi Richard,

Originally Posted by Richard

All, re the markings that have been debated, I don't want to complicate matters but Portugal was not the only country to which Britain sent the P1796 heavy sword ...

The assumption that this sword's marks are either Spanish or Portuguese relies on the use of genre ... feminine, in the case. The 2ª for segunda and Cª for Companhia are undoubtedly the type of initials used on marks in the Peninsula,
Fernando

[celtan]

Thanks for answering my Q, Ian.

But then, if you file off the tang's end. How do you reassemble the grip afterwards, and keep the whole shebang together? Not Krazy-Glue, I hope!

: )

Originally Posted by Ian Knight

Thanks very much guys. I may write a illustrated list of instructions when I make my next grip.


Manolo,
Taking this sword apart was fairly easy as the leather buffer/washer was placed between the blade and hilt not just slid over the blade. I cut the old leather buffer away and was then able to push the blade backwards exposing about 2 mm of the tang. The peened over end of the tang can then be filed off allowing you to dis-assemble the sword. Hey presto.


Ian

[Ian Knight]

Hello Manolo,
I'm sorry my explanation wasn't very accurate. The end of the tang is not filed off, just the sides of the 'mushroom' created when the tang was originally peened over. See my very basic drawing.

Ian