Unsusual hilt

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you very much Guwaya for your clarification of terminology.

I much appreciate this revelation of your personal approach to the study of the keris.

I agree with you in that "Hulu Keris" would fail miserably by any academic standards for acceptance as a reference work, and the same is true of the bulk of the body of literature that relates to the keris.

Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly that "Hulu Keris", together with all other literature relating to keris fails to provide well researched and referenced information, however, speaking only for myself, I find this lack of perfectly structured, academically referenced information to be part of the fascination of the study of the keris, as it permits us to carry out our own research and form our own opinions, and all this research and the attendant opinion adds to the body of knowledge relating to the keris.

The ongoing discussion of keris literature as it relates to the various topics raised for discussion here, forms an integral part of our discussion, and our joint learning process, thus it is appropriate, in my opinion, to discuss literature and reference sources relating to any matter under discussion.

In fact, some of the most valuable research and opinion to come forth in recent years has been produced by people who have no special relationship with, nor interest in, the keris.

Guwaya, you have raised the question:-

If you go back in your collection life - let's say to the point you were collecting for 5 years. You come to Solo and somebody offers you a hilt - let's say the solonese variation of the on Bali so-called Balu Mekabun hilt. You ask the person,. "what does this style represent?" and you get the answer: "it represents an abstract human figure!" Would you have been satisfied with this answer?


Again, speaking only for myself, at the age of 16 or 17 --- which is when I would have been collecting for 5 years or so --- had I been fortunate enough to be in that Solo position, I would probably have been jubilant to have received such a revealing and perceptive answer. If ten years later I had been so stupid as to have even asked such a question, well, I would probably have been stupid enough to be satisfied with the answer then, also.

[Moshah]

Hi guys.

We have to admit that it is really hard to find a really good reference book in the world of keris. But then again our perception of "reference" are actually evolves together with knowledge and experience.

For beginners, any book with lots of pictures of hilts' examples and style variations can be regarded as a good reference point, even though very little details are enclosed in the picture's caption. On the other hand, for someone who has handled thousands of hilts and know better, these kind of books are not as informative as once when he started collecting years ago.

For me, even though not all books are painstakingly informative, seeing hundreds of high-res quality pictures enclosed, together with close up / macro pixs, is like going for a stroll in a keris museum at your own pace. And you can keep coming back any time you wish so.

[guwaya]

"For beginners, any book with lots of pictures of hilts' examples and style variations can be regarded as a good reference point."[/QUOTE]

Moshah

But then you go the risk that beginners easily overtake wrong informations or attributions. The danger is to become attracted by the new wonderful presented picture books and to loose the critical eye for what is written as it is so easy .......... .

Especially for beginners I take the oposite position: NOT "any book with lots of pictures of hilts' examples and style variations can be regarded as a good reference point."

[Moshah]

Guwaya,

Indeed it is a point that beginners can easily misunderstood and accepted that all the info in any keris book are true and evidence-based.

Most beginners actually are buying stories from people in the keris trade, in their humble beginning. While not all people in the keris trade are that bad, but sadly this always happen. Anyway, by the time they are buying their 3rd keris onwards, these beginners actually has developed their own sense of learning. And those stories of might and magic are not of any relevance to them anymore.

Same goes with book. There are numbers of keris books where the info are for entry level enthusiasts and contains many error (need further editing), but the fact is, it still sells.

How much terror that we scared to befall upon new generation in order for them to learn their way up in the keris collecting world, it is actually a learning process, which is vital. The harder they fall, the harder they remember.

Somehow, I feel that learning something in the hard way is always the best way...

[Marcokeris]

IMO mr. Jensen's Krisdisk is the best work i have seen till today about keris hits

[Naga Sasra]

Guwaya
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to the question from me, it helped me better understand the reasoning behind your opinion.
I do however; have a few comments regarding the matter of reference material in general.

You are absolutely right, a reference book should contain useful facts with references from authoritative sources, while this statement is true it also represent the major problem facing all literature as it apply to the Keris, which is lack of creditable informational resources from where authoritative information can be found.

Unlike Europe where history is well documented thru the ages, Indonesia are in the peculiar situation where history have been rewritten to fit the policies of past houses of power or rewritten to comply with changes in religious beliefs, so the possibility of having creditable information derived from the old documents or books are indeed slim, as these documents or books most likely have been rewritten over and over.

This leaves us with present literature and some older books from the late 18th and 19th century and nothing creditable prior to that other than the Serat Centhini which also has been rewritten over the years. So what is written is hearsay, passed down thru families or coming from present day authorities on the subject.

For the longest time there were very little literature available on the subject of the Keris, this in the last years seem to have exploded with many a picture book available, and that for the most part is what they are, picture books! Very little information with few if any reference to quoted sources of information.
Which bring us to the present day and the discussion on “Hulu Keris”. Here again I agree with you, this booklet I believe was never intended as an academic, well researched and referenced book, but an informational work in nature.
As for someone doing a serious scientifically researched reference book on the Hulu encompassing the entire Indonesian Archipelago, I sincerely doubt it, as what one may interpret a hulu as being today, may not necessarily be what it was interpreted as being say 300 years ago. A potential author of such a work will run into the problem of having little or no documented reference material.

Your question:
Without revealing my true age let me answer it this way. If I came to Solo at the age of 17 and someone offered me a hilt, I do not believe I would have asked :”what does this style represent?” I think I would have looked at it, feeling it in my hands, lightly rubbing it and if interested in it start a bargaining process, if successful and not knowing was it represented I would start to research the hilt upon returning home.
Basically I would do the same thing today. Many many many years later.

[A. G. Maisey]

Naga Sasra, you have very neatly summarised some of the problems in learning about the keris, and of course, this includes learning about keris hilts.

I would like to go a little further into this matter of the seeking of knowledge.

The keris is a multi facetted thing.

Because of this, the knowledge associated with the keris is also multi facetted.

Thus when we speak of "keris knowledge" we can then specify the nature of the knowledge.

We can have knowledge related to the manufacture of the keris, knowledge related to classification of styles and geographic points of origin, knowledge related to folklore, knowledge related to socio-cultural aspects, knowledge related to the art of the keris --- and there are probably a few other areas of knowledge that I have not mentioned.

Then we have the fact that the keris has been with us for a very long time, and as you have pointed out, that which was true at one point in time, was not necessarily true at some other point in time.

This element of change over time is further complicated by the problem of the character and application of both the Hindu and the Muslim belief systems in Javanese society. It can be quite incorrect to interpret symbols found in Javanese Hindu period art, most especially in folk art, in terms of mainstream Hindu belief, and the same is true of symbolism in Jawa during the Islamic era.

When we attempt study of the keris as it is found in places outside Jawa, further complications arise

So, when we speak of reliable keris reference books, we are really speaking of something that can probably never exist.

We have commentaries on the keris that provide us with one point of view at one point in time, and if this point of view has been provided by a respected person in the world of the keris, it is justifiable to adopt it as a common point of reference. This has happened with works of Bambang Harsinuksmo, and Haryono Haryoguritno.

If we go back in time, we find a similar thing following on from the publication in late colonial times of various works dealing with the keris, perhaps the most influential amongst these was "Panangguhing Duwung" by Mas Ngabehi Wirosoekadgo. I believe this work was of considerable influence upon the opinions of my own teacher, Empu Suparman, and other ahli keris of his generation.

If we travel further back in time we find that Centini was an influential work, however, Centini is a literary work, and any mention of keris in Centini is incidental to the central thread of this work.

Probably the foundation of keris literary works is the babad written by Pangeran Wijil :- "Silsilah Keturunan Empu Tanah Jawa", broadly "The Line of Descent of the Empus of the Land of Jawa". In this work the writer gives not only the line of descent, in a rather biblical form --- and empu so and so begat four sons and a daughter, the sons were this & this & etc & etc, and the daughter was that, --- but also details the movements of the people mentioned and the characteristics of their work. Pangeran Wijil's work seems to have formed the basis for M.Ng. Wirosoekadgo's work, and this work seems to have been the foundation stone of tangguh, from which all worthwhile knowledge of keris, according to Javanese standards, flows.

But since we are outside the Javanese system, we can validly ask the question:-

what do we mean by knowledge?

I suggest that before we criticise any source of information we should attempt to analyse our own objectives in the pursuit of knowledge, and thoughtfully apply all available resources to achievement of those objectives.

If we adopt this approach, I believe it will not take much effort before we become aware that we can glean only the barest of superficial information from most published works on the keris. To learn anything of true value we need to involve ourselves in the study of the history, culture, art, society and in fact all elements of those places where the keris is found.

If we stay only with "books on keris" we will not learn much at all.

If we really do want to try to understand the keris, and we are from outside Javanese society, we then need to go one step further and try in so far as it is possible to learn to apply the thought processes of a person raised as a Javanese. It is certain that we can never become Javanese, but we can learn to understand the way in which a Javanese person sees and relates to the world around him. Unless we can achieve this it is impossible for us to achieve any true understanding of the keris within any time frame.

So --- what do we mean by knowledge?

[guwaya]

Originally Posted by Naga Sasra

Guwaya

Which bring us to the present day and the discussion on “Hulu Keris”. Here again I agree with you, this booklet I believe was never intended as an academic, well researched and referenced book, but an informational work in nature.

Naga Sasra:

I completely agree with your statement and I would like to thank you for the explanations to the HULU KERIS book as it might be that I have been misunderstood. I am the same opinion that the book "was never intended as an academic, well researched and referenced book", but when I read the different comments I had the impression that it was handled as that. It is mostly not the book(s) which I critsize but its the way the people read or handle the books.

The from Marcokeris made comment "IMO mr. Jensen's Krisdisk is the best work i have seen till today about keris hits" is a good sample for what I mean.

Although Marcokeris only spoke about the keris hilts I see the disk/book in its completness. And if I have a book in my hand - a book which seems to be ambitious - and then already at the beginning at the part terminology of the blade I stumble over an in my eyes essential error, then - and I only speek for me - I am questioning myself how will be the forthgoing parts and how well done the researches for creating such a book might have be done.

Finally again, I don't generally critisize straight on the book(s) itself as mistakes can happen, but in some books with the ambitiousness to belong to a higher level, essential faults really should not happen. I generally critisize the way how literature nowadays is used by the readers - much to less critical reading and that is what I ment some time ago when I wrote that in the closer future the not so well presentated but seriously researched books will be fogotten and the well presentated will be handled as reference books because of the lack of critical reading. And then the mistake in the terminolgy might become commen in its use and the right term will go under (I speek here only for the western readers).

So far so good - I know I am fighting against windmills - but it has to be said.