Just a small question that had me very curious...

[A. G. Maisey]

I reckon a bit of bling is OK, especially with Bali pieces, but what really gets up my nose is combinations that just totally put your teeth on edge.

Intricate Madura ivories with severly sophisticated Surakarta ladrangans.

Bugis hilts with Bali wrongkos.

Lampung hilts with Madura wrongkos.

These combinations are all ones that I have recently seen, and to me, they just look so bad.

If we want to do the bling thing, we should stay within the bounds of acceptability.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

If we want to do the bling thing, we should stay within the bounds of acceptability.

I whole-heartedly agree here. I have myself been insistent in placing a uwer on a Bali keris that may or may not have originally had one, but this is, at least in my mind, well within general custom. I must say that i don't really understand the collector who is willing to combine dress in unusual ways to meet their own western sensibilities. For me, with collecting comes a desire to understand the culture, ways and customs of the places my keris come from.

[Naga Sasra]

Well said David !

[ThePepperSkull]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Must be more specific than "Indonesian" .
The idea of "Indonesian" really only dates from around 1946, so there really was no "Indonesian of old".
The answer to this lays in the answers already given:- under court influence you conform; in a village if you think you can hang a bit of bling and get away with it, you do.

An interesting point you bring up. I appreciate that response, as it makes me want to do even more research into Indonesian/Malay history.

My expertise until recently has been of filipino edged weaponry (more specifically from the visayas and of Luzon), but I have been heading progressively into a more malay direction in my hobby. First by doing research into Moro Weaponry and Mindanao history, then going into a little bruneian and borneo research because of my passion for the Moro Kris. This brought me into the Keris Worung Kopi area of these forums as I attempt to learn more about its predecessor, the Keris.

Not until recently have I discovered how far-reaching this blade style has gone and how much it has influenced culture in areas of southeast asia. I'm hooked on reading and learning about it!

I would rephrase my question, but you and others have more than adequately answered it!

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

From what I can see of it, collectors have always done pretty much whatever they like with dress --- something that tends to annoy me more than just a little.

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I reckon a bit of bling is OK, especially with Bali pieces, but what really gets up my nose is combinations that just totally put your teeth on edge.

Intricate Madura ivories with severly sophisticated Surakarta ladrangans.

Bugis hilts with Bali wrongkos.

Lampung hilts with Madura wrongkos.

These combinations are all ones that I have recently seen, and to me, they just look so bad.

If we want to do the bling thing, we should stay within the bounds of acceptability.

Originally Posted by David

I whole-heartedly agree here. I have myself been insistent in placing a uwer on a Bali keris that may or may not have originally had one, but this is, at least in my mind, well within general custom. I must say that i don't really understand the collector who is willing to combine dress in unusual ways to meet their own western sensibilities. For me, with collecting comes a desire to understand the culture, ways and customs of the places my keris come from.

Very interesting input! I love picking your brains on this subject. the more answers I get, the more questions I get out of it! You're all a wealth of information that makes me glad I found this forum.

Another follow-up question: What combinations of parts in particular (other than the ones you have already mentioned) tend to make you guys (as more than just collectors, but collector-scholars/research hobbyists) cringe?

The reason I ask is that I recently acquired a keris that was beautiful to my untrained eye, but after some research I thought a bit unusual. The Warangka and Pendok struck me as distinctly Surakarta, whereas the Ukiran looked of Balinese origin. It didn't seem like a mistake that they were put together, however, as both warangka and ukiran are made of black horn, and the Pendok and inlay of the Ukiran are both silver with plant/flower engravings (called okir for such decorations on moro kris, but I am unsure of what term to use for the Keris)

I contacted the seller but have not yet recieved a response. I do know that the blade and the sheath are newer made pieces, however. It just struck me as very odd that a balinese hilt was joined with a Surakarta sheath. There is a bit more patination on the silver inlay of the hilt however, which prompts me to believe that it is older.

[David]

Pepperskull, why don't you upload some photos of this keris. It would be much easier to discuss if we could all get a look at it.

[ThePepperSkull]

Once I get my camera fixed, I will do so ASAP!

[Henk]

I had the same question as David. With a picture we can comment much eassier.
Thank you for starting this thread. You see what a minuscule question to ask can bring.

David Quote:
For me, with collecting comes a desire to understand the culture, ways and customs of the places my keris come from.

I think David couldn't say it better.