Ethics and Policies

Spunjer · 26th November 2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well let's try this. I would hope that a good number of the Warung membership is currently monitoring this thread, especially the dealers. Sooooo, if you regularly deal in keris and related edged weapons, step up to the plate and tell us straight out. Seriously, who is a dealer out there? Yes, i probably already know, but i'd like to here it from you. Even if dealing is just a part-time thing for you or a collector who regularly turns weapons around for profit, you should declare that. Now's the time to let it officially be know.

david, i think you should start a new thread on this...

Quote:

I do not post in the keris forum,but I do in the other forums. I am a dealer and a collector for many years, but I do not post items that I am going to sell in the discussion forums only items that are from my personal collection. The use of the forum as a catalog or as a sales advertisement has been happening with more frequencey the last few years. The result being that I do not respond to post very often any more. Why should I do a dealers research for him ?

BINGO!

ward · 26th November 2009, 08:01 PM

It is no secret that I am a dealer and never has been so I do not understand the Bingo.

David · 26th November 2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

It is no secret that I am a dealer and never has been so I do not understand the Bingo.

I don't want to speak for Ron, but i think the spirit of his "bingo" was a resounding agreement of what you have said, not an accusation. I believe he was responding more to the last few comments than your admission that you are a dealer. I am sure Ron will correct me if i am wrong.

Spunjer · 26th November 2009, 08:12 PM

i should've narrowed the quote. i was referring to the last sentence of your post

Spunjer · 26th November 2009, 08:13 PM

beat me by a few seconds, david. thanks.

A. G. Maisey · 26th November 2009, 10:01 PM

Yeah, I deal.

Have done so for almost as long as I've collected keris --- 50 something years.

Since about 1977 I've dealt internationally; used to do it with letters and photos, now I do it with my website.

I think that most keris aligned people who frequent the E.E.W. site already know this.

If it is deemed desireable to identify those of us who deal, it would suggest that a group mailing go out to all members so that a data base can be established, and that all new members should be required to ID themselves as dealers if in fact they are.

Personally, I feel that it is not so much the fact that somebody deals that is what should be addressed, as the use of a specific posting for commercial purposes. Yes, possibly the membership should be made aware of who the dealers are, but more important they should be made aware of an item posted for comment that will be offered for sale in the near future.

We now have what I believe to be a good cross sectional representation of members opinions.

There has been a lot of very valid comment.

I would suggest that now we have a general direction, specific objectives of any changes in rules should be identified.

To my way of thinking there are two overall objectives:-

1) --- to identify all unethical dealers

2) --- to give the swap forum back to pure collectors

Perhaps we could now have some suggestions of objectives that could be considered by our moderators.

When the objectives have been agreed to by our moderators, then it will be possible to put in place a mechanism that will permit achievement of the identified objectives.

A. G. Maisey · 29th November 2009, 07:47 PM

This thread has drawn a lot of interest, and a number of people have come forward and stated an opinion.

It is my firm conviction that the management of this site will act to improve this facility and will put in place some revised policies in order to keep the character of the site as it was originally intended:- a place for collectors to exchange information and to learn.

Once those new policies are in place I am certain that management will not enter into any discussion on either the new policies or upon their application.

Once any new policies are in place there will be no further opportunity for comment.

At the present time we have a unique opportunity:-

we, the membership of this Forum, have been permitted to state our views in this matter, and to assist management in the formulation of policy.

I most sincerely advise that we do not let this opportunity pass.

The time has come for us to let management know what we want any changes in policy to do, in other words to state what we believe the objectives of change in policy should seek to achieve.

I have stated what I think these objectives should be.

Are my objectives adequate?

Or are they inadequate?

Do they need to be changed?

Do they need to be added to?

We cannot get to a new place unless we identify our destination.

The way to do that is to formulate a clear and achieveable objective.

Now is the time to do that.

Once management has taken its decision and acted it will be too late to change anything.

Jeff D · 29th November 2009, 08:43 PM

Apparently I was too cryptic before. Let me explain what I would like to see as this affects the entire board. I am not too familiar with the Keris forum, but have noticed the same behavior on the other forums with the same detrimental effect. It is clear some forumites don't mind being pumped for information, some do. A sub-forum where all the contributors know that the object is, or will be for sale would avoid any confusion and subsequent hard feelings. All who would like to contribute can, those who don't can avoid the threads. It should lessen the work load for the moderators as they will not have to be constantly policing the threads to warn, ban, lock, or delete the offending threads and members.

Anyone using the other forums for commercial purposes could simply be banned and their entire thread deleted. We can all help police the site, bring the offenders to the attention of a moderator, then ZAP, they and their thread are gone. I personally would like to see a one year statute of limitations on the object. It won't have to happen too often for the message to get through. We can then get back to the sharing of information as a group of like minded enthusiasts.

Thanks
Jeff

BluErf · 30th November 2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...

Once those new policies are in place I am certain that management will not enter into any discussion on either the new policies or upon their application.

Once any new policies are in place there will be no further opportunity for comment.

...

Once management has taken its decision and acted it will be too late to change anything.

In my humble opinion, if some policies don't work as well as expected after implementation, or is even detrimental to the forum due to some unforeseen reasons, they should be subject to review. The only question is how they can be put up for review. I don't think any policy can be perfect from the start and stay relevant/unchanged over long periods.

26th November 2009, 08:01 PM	#2
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	It is no secret that I am a dealer and never has been so I do not understand the Bingo.

26th November 2009, 08:12 PM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	i should've narrowed the quote. i was referring to the last sentence of your post

26th November 2009, 08:13 PM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	beat me by a few seconds, david. thanks.

26th November 2009, 10:01 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yeah, I deal. Have done so for almost as long as I've collected keris --- 50 something years. Since about 1977 I've dealt internationally; used to do it with letters and photos, now I do it with my website. I think that most keris aligned people who frequent the E.E.W. site already know this. If it is deemed desireable to identify those of us who deal, it would suggest that a group mailing go out to all members so that a data base can be established, and that all new members should be required to ID themselves as dealers if in fact they are. Personally, I feel that it is not so much the fact that somebody deals that is what should be addressed, as the use of a specific posting for commercial purposes. Yes, possibly the membership should be made aware of who the dealers are, but more important they should be made aware of an item posted for comment that will be offered for sale in the near future. We now have what I believe to be a good cross sectional representation of members opinions. There has been a lot of very valid comment. I would suggest that now we have a general direction, specific objectives of any changes in rules should be identified. To my way of thinking there are two overall objectives:- 1) --- to identify all unethical dealers 2) --- to give the swap forum back to pure collectors Perhaps we could now have some suggestions of objectives that could be considered by our moderators. When the objectives have been agreed to by our moderators, then it will be possible to put in place a mechanism that will permit achievement of the identified objectives.

29th November 2009, 07:47 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	This thread has drawn a lot of interest, and a number of people have come forward and stated an opinion. It is my firm conviction that the management of this site will act to improve this facility and will put in place some revised policies in order to keep the character of the site as it was originally intended:- a place for collectors to exchange information and to learn. Once those new policies are in place I am certain that management will not enter into any discussion on either the new policies or upon their application. Once any new policies are in place there will be no further opportunity for comment. At the present time we have a unique opportunity:- we, the membership of this Forum, have been permitted to state our views in this matter, and to assist management in the formulation of policy. I most sincerely advise that we do not let this opportunity pass. The time has come for us to let management know what we want any changes in policy to do, in other words to state what we believe the objectives of change in policy should seek to achieve. I have stated what I think these objectives should be. Are my objectives adequate? Or are they inadequate? Do they need to be changed? Do they need to be added to? We cannot get to a new place unless we identify our destination. The way to do that is to formulate a clear and achieveable objective. Now is the time to do that. Once management has taken its decision and acted it will be too late to change anything.

29th November 2009, 08:43 PM	#8
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Apparently I was too cryptic before. Let me explain what I would like to see as this affects the entire board. I am not too familiar with the Keris forum, but have noticed the same behavior on the other forums with the same detrimental effect. It is clear some forumites don't mind being pumped for information, some do. A sub-forum where all the contributors know that the object is, or will be for sale would avoid any confusion and subsequent hard feelings. All who would like to contribute can, those who don't can avoid the threads. It should lessen the work load for the moderators as they will not have to be constantly policing the threads to warn, ban, lock, or delete the offending threads and members. Anyone using the other forums for commercial purposes could simply be banned and their entire thread deleted. We can all help police the site, bring the offenders to the attention of a moderator, then ZAP, they and their thread are gone. I personally would like to see a one year statute of limitations on the object. It won't have to happen too often for the message to get through. We can then get back to the sharing of information as a group of like minded enthusiasts. Thanks Jeff