The Kingdom.

[Moshah]

You have the point there, Alan.

But as you said initially, those "clearence kid" and junior clerks are the people who make the kingdom running. Without them, no documents are properly distributed and placed, henceforth the engineers will have trouble in their work, sooner or later.

And who is going to put so much documents in the tables of those IAs?

By then, I believe that all those mundane jobs of naming and classification is the brick and mortar of this forum. For people of your experience and knowledge, this definitely means a chores too bland and boring, but I believe we have many newcomers who thrilled to know the very basic thing (names, classification, dhapur, etc) of their newly beloved acquired hobby.

And that is the level of junior clerk.

We can't have everybody to come into the kingdom and be the engineer, for instance. So those junior collectors will learn from naming and categorising keris, dhapur recognition, pamor works, besi types and perhaps even tangguh. When they have possess enough knowledge, they will get mature and start addressing more challenging questions as they do. And by that time also they will start to produce quality theory and discussion.

If all the forumers started to produce challenging threads with complex discussions, then we will start seeing less newcomers and shun away younger people from keris world.

Let the junior clerk do what they need to do, and encourage them to do more than that, so that they can move up to senior clerk, and above, step by step.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, you're right Moshah.

You understand my point exactly.

I started this thread three years ago, and what prompted me to start it was the seemingly unending threads that were all about the name of this that and the other, and where it might have come from. At that time I felt that the Warung was in danger of becoming less than what it was capable of becoming.

The keris is an icon of a culture.

One cannot understand a cultural icon in the absence of an understanding of the culture.

This is particularly true of the keris, as it is an icon that is central to a culture.


What I wanted to see was more thought put into questions.

Framing a good question is often vastly more difficult than providing a good answer.

How did the piles of documents on the desks in the IA office get there?

Generally speaking these people obtain their own documents from source. The job is not usually entrusted to junior staff.

[Jussi M.]

It all makes sense.

However, can one also not work as a janitor or a cleaner having access to more or less everywhere and being thus able to form a fuzzy form of an understanding of how the company functions as a whole even though one is not aware of the specifics of any given level or hierarchy that compromise the company in question?

There must exist ways to pass the hierarchical structure if one is willing to break, bend, redirect or pass the rules that the structure uses for showing and exercising rank. Who knows the company better - the clerk with a limited view or the janitor with a 360 degree access to all over the place?

It is all about positioning your effort.

No?

[Rick]

Uhm, Jussi .....

That's my job here .

[Jussi M.]

Originally Posted by Rick

Uhm, Jussi .....

That's my job here .

Me, I have positioned myself on another floor

[A. G. Maisey]

Jussi, does the mouse see a tree in the same way as an elephant?

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody!

Many decades have taught me that generally speaking, in the real world, absolute truths are very hard to come by. More readily available are belief systems. As one has a limited lifespan... and indeed a very limited amount of time to research every detail to its primary source ( if still available), one tends to adopt a belief system to compensate.
Humans have a tendency to behave like sheep. It is easier to follow and extrapolate someone else's work than to do one's own. Oh for the availability of more GOATS!
There are many different truths about the same thing, depending on perspective. So it is with belief systems. In some cases, even absolute truths have been rejected through lack of belief/faith in it, to be replaced by more acceptable, concocted myths.
From my perspective, it's a distinct advantage to be part of IA. However, even in IA one musn't shy away from the process of reiterative investigation. It is a lot easier if, even within IA, one identifies/establishes others who can serve as reliable secondary/tertiary/etc. sources (to save continual duplication of effort).
To totally understand an icon from a culture, one needs to understand the culture which produced that icon. One should not evaluate the icon according to the value/belief system of another culture. Aspects may be missed and indeed, misunderstood altogether.
To be able to ask the 'right' questions during the various stages of an investigation I have found EMPATHY to be most invaluable, followed by the sights: sight, hindsight, foresight and insight.

Best,

[Jussi M.]

We now have a pretty streamlined pathway presented on this thread.

Thank you

J