keris for comment

Sajen · 10th November 2009, 04:30 PM

Hello Semar,

David is correct, Palembang keris with nice hilt. The gold is original I think, this sort of gold work is like this, look my keris in this thread:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10998

A thin gold sheet was put over the gandik part and the up from the ganja. I have a other one where all gold is missing.
You can't push up the pendok?

sajen

Moshah · 10th November 2009, 05:54 PM

Hi Detlef,

You mean, the gold is originally and purposely being applied overlay the ganja like that?

Or was it overlayed because the original kinatah gold are missing there? Was that is the real purpose of the overlaying?

Sajen · 11th November 2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moshah

Hi Detlef,

You mean, the gold is originally and purposely being applied overlay the ganja like that?

Or was it overlayed because the original kinatah gold are missing there? Was that is the real purpose of the overlaying?

Hi Moshah,

yes, I think that this is original. What I have seen until now is that the way of kinatah work on Sumatra is different than on Java or Bali. Look for example my blade in the link in up. Here a picture from the Sumatra blade where all gold is missing, you can see how the gold have been affixed before. And a second picture of an very old Madura blade with kinatah.

Detlef

Sorry, the first picture is the Madura blade and the second the Sumatra.

Moshah · 12th November 2009, 11:29 AM

You mean, the kinatah from Madura and Java is bold, while Sumatran style of kinatah is like a simple gold overlay (like a watercolour painting)?

BTW, nice kinatah on your Madura blades!

Sajen · 12th November 2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moshah

You mean, the kinatah from Madura and Java is bold, while Sumatran style of kinatah is like a simple gold overlay (like a watercolour painting)?

BTW, nice kinatah on your Madura blades!

Thank you for the compliment of the Madura blade.
No, I mean that the kinatah from Sumatra isn't so strong attached like by Java or Bali blades. This is what I have seen by my both blades and some other blades. Would be interesting to read the knowlegde from other members.

Best,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 12th November 2009, 08:50 PM

What we are looking at here is a variation in technique, and a variation in quality, rather than a variation based on geographic origin.

Kinatah is where the individual elements of the motif have had gold applied to them. There are several ways that this can be done, some are better than others.

Where an overlay of gold has been applied to an entire section of metal, we are not looking at kinatah work.

The best kinatah work I have ever seen is on a Balinese royal keris; I have seen and I own several keris and tombak from South Sumatra and from Jawa that all have very good quality kinatah work.

It is a matter of the level of quality and the technique of ornamentation that has been used, rather than a matter of geographic origin.

semar · 14th November 2009, 06:59 AM

thank you al for your comment and the pendok I push I`m one his place

regards semar

10th November 2009, 04:30 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,278	Hello Semar, David is correct, Palembang keris with nice hilt. The gold is original I think, this sort of gold work is like this, look my keris in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10998 A thin gold sheet was put over the gandik part and the up from the ganja. I have a other one where all gold is missing. You can't push up the pendok? sajen

10th November 2009, 05:54 PM	#2
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	Hi Detlef, You mean, the gold is originally and purposely being applied overlay the ganja like that? Or was it overlayed because the original kinatah gold are missing there? Was that is the real purpose of the overlaying?

12th November 2009, 11:29 AM	#4
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	You mean, the kinatah from Madura and Java is bold, while Sumatran style of kinatah is like a simple gold overlay (like a watercolour painting)? BTW, nice kinatah on your Madura blades!

12th November 2009, 08:50 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,049	What we are looking at here is a variation in technique, and a variation in quality, rather than a variation based on geographic origin. Kinatah is where the individual elements of the motif have had gold applied to them. There are several ways that this can be done, some are better than others. Where an overlay of gold has been applied to an entire section of metal, we are not looking at kinatah work. The best kinatah work I have ever seen is on a Balinese royal keris; I have seen and I own several keris and tombak from South Sumatra and from Jawa that all have very good quality kinatah work. It is a matter of the level of quality and the technique of ornamentation that has been used, rather than a matter of geographic origin.

14th November 2009, 06:59 AM	#7
semar Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 272	thank you al for your comment and the pendok I push I`m one his place regards semar