Gold Cross on top of Pesi

Rick · 4th November 2009, 04:02 PM

Hi Erik, good to see you here .

Perhaps an examination of the strata of Javanese social structure is in order to further the search for significance .

This is a subject I am pretty unfamiliar with .

Maybe a secret society , a priest class, a Healer .... ?

Or just a talisman for the affluent ?

khalifah muda · 5th November 2009, 06:43 AM

the plus sign at the pesi:

"....oleh sebagian masyarakat dianggap mempunyai tuah tertentu."

direct translation".....within a cluster (minority/half) of the community that it holds a certain luck"

Certain luck is very vague. Maybe there's luck for its owner for his/her embarkation in anything he/she do.

Luck charm???

Gustav · 5th November 2009, 06:43 PM

We probably should at first ask and learn to know, what Jalak and Tapak Jalak means for Indonesians. Then we possibly were able to come a little bit closer to this sign on pesi.

A similar sign appears on the gonjo of the beautiful keris of Blue Erf: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...warriors+keris

khalifah muda · 6th November 2009, 01:59 AM

Hi Gustav,

The intention of its previous owner or empu is similar for Blue Erf keris which is luck charm.

Definition of Tapak Jalak
Tapak = Steps or langkah which is equal to moves in pencak silat.
Jalak = Is the term for the cross sign.

In pencak silat/ninja there are moves for tapak jalak....crossing legs while doing stances or movement from point to point.

Regards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

We probably should at first ask and learn to know, what Jalak and Tapak Jalak means for Indonesians. Then we possibly were able to come a little bit closer to this sign on pesi.

A similar sign appears on the gonjo of the beautiful keris of Blue Erf: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...warriors+keris

rasdan · 6th November 2009, 02:41 PM

All this while i thought that tapak jalak is:

tapak: footprint
jalak: a gamecock with blue-black feather;

while "biring" is the ones with orange feathers.

A. G. Maisey · 6th November 2009, 07:51 PM

In Javanese tapak is footstep, footprint, trace, track and a jalak is a myna bird .

Not that any of that has much to do with the cross in the end of a pesi.

I'm still out of this discussion, and I will not be posting any of my ideas, opinions or knowledge here on this subject.

However, I will offer a little bit of advice which those pursuing the discussion may accept or reject as they see fit.

I would suggest that before floating ideas and opinions on the meaning of a cross of any kind in the end of a pesi, or anywhere else on a keris, that before any valid opinion can be offered, the origin of the keris, and the time frame within which it was produced should first be established.

These two factors are vital to the determination of the meaning behind this symbol.

Naga Sasra · 7th November 2009, 03:45 PM

Good advice Alan, and thanks to Rick (long time no see!) Rasdan, khalifah muda, Gustav and Moshah for your comments and idear's.

At this time we have been adviced that the gold cross also occur in Sumatra and we have a cross on the underside of a gonjo in a Malay piece posted by Blue Erf.

It has also been established that any of the translations of Tapak Jalak really does not have anything which relate to the cross in translation.
That said, we still do not know just what it is doing on the top of the pesi and what it stand for.
Allow me to restate my questions a little more in detail;

In what time frame did this occur? is it still being done

A little piece of information most of the pieces but not all, I have seen this on were Nom-Noman. Was it also done outside these places and this time period, prior or later?

We have been informed that it occur in Sumatra pieces, are these pieces made in Sumatra or are they imports from Jawa

Do anyone out there have a photo of a Sumatra piece with Tapak Jalak?

Perhaps Blue Erf have recent information on his blade with the cross under the gonjo, which would explain the cross?

If not perhaps some of our friends from Jawa will join in

Thank you!

4th November 2009, 04:02 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Hi Erik, good to see you here . Perhaps an examination of the strata of Javanese social structure is in order to further the search for significance . This is a subject I am pretty unfamiliar with . Maybe a secret society , a priest class, a Healer .... ? Or just a talisman for the affluent ?

5th November 2009, 06:43 AM	#2
khalifah muda Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Singapore Posts: 54	the plus sign at the pesi: "....oleh sebagian masyarakat dianggap mempunyai tuah tertentu." direct translation".....within a cluster (minority/half) of the community that it holds a certain luck" Certain luck is very vague. Maybe there's luck for its owner for his/her embarkation in anything he/she do. Luck charm???

5th November 2009, 06:43 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	We probably should at first ask and learn to know, what Jalak and Tapak Jalak means for Indonesians. Then we possibly were able to come a little bit closer to this sign on pesi. A similar sign appears on the gonjo of the beautiful keris of Blue Erf: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...warriors+keris

6th November 2009, 02:41 PM	#5
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	All this while i thought that tapak jalak is: tapak: footprint jalak: a gamecock with blue-black feather; while "biring" is the ones with orange feathers.

6th November 2009, 07:51 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	In Javanese tapak is footstep, footprint, trace, track and a jalak is a myna bird . Not that any of that has much to do with the cross in the end of a pesi. I'm still out of this discussion, and I will not be posting any of my ideas, opinions or knowledge here on this subject. However, I will offer a little bit of advice which those pursuing the discussion may accept or reject as they see fit. I would suggest that before floating ideas and opinions on the meaning of a cross of any kind in the end of a pesi, or anywhere else on a keris, that before any valid opinion can be offered, the origin of the keris, and the time frame within which it was produced should first be established. These two factors are vital to the determination of the meaning behind this symbol.

7th November 2009, 03:45 PM	#7
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Good advice Alan, and thanks to Rick (long time no see!) Rasdan, khalifah muda, Gustav and Moshah for your comments and idear's. At this time we have been adviced that the gold cross also occur in Sumatra and we have a cross on the underside of a gonjo in a Malay piece posted by Blue Erf. It has also been established that any of the translations of Tapak Jalak really does not have anything which relate to the cross in translation. That said, we still do not know just what it is doing on the top of the pesi and what it stand for. Allow me to restate my questions a little more in detail; In what time frame did this occur? is it still being done A little piece of information most of the pieces but not all, I have seen this on were Nom-Noman. Was it also done outside these places and this time period, prior or later? We have been informed that it occur in Sumatra pieces, are these pieces made in Sumatra or are they imports from Jawa Do anyone out there have a photo of a Sumatra piece with Tapak Jalak? Perhaps Blue Erf have recent information on his blade with the cross under the gonjo, which would explain the cross? If not perhaps some of our friends from Jawa will join in Thank you!