Gold Cross on top of Pesi

Moshah · 1st November 2009, 08:41 AM

That would be the right one.

Alan, what kind of talismanic value that normally associated to this kind of kinatah? Was it ever called kinatah, anyway?

I doubt that it was created to deter status, as nobody will walk around flaunt the pesi or wearing a keris without the ukiran / hilt...unless if there are secret society / occult meeting which needs you to reveal certain part of the keris.

Hmm, I might be seeing much cult movies lately

Gustav · 1st November 2009, 10:18 AM

Not status, a talismanic value. Nobody bears his talisman visible for all people.

A. G. Maisey · 1st November 2009, 12:06 PM

I'd like to stay out of this discussion.

I'm interested in seeing what opinions might arise.

Gustav · 1st November 2009, 12:31 PM

We most probably are not able to have a discussion about this. The meaning of this pesi must be clear for Alan and some members who post very seldom.

And of course for Haryo Haryoguritno. I think, the information in his book about this kind of pesi is well dosed for a broad public, for most of us.

Sajen · 1st November 2009, 02:40 PM

Thank you Moshah and Alan for the correct translation, the last part of the sentence I don't understand really.
Agree with Gustav that a talisman don't need to shown open for all people. And it's no surprise that the pesi carry a talisman since it is a very important part of a keris.

Moshah · 1st November 2009, 06:14 PM

In my opinion, if it was really for talismanic value, and to be kept unseen, I guess the owner can't simply send his keris to people for cleaning and warangan purposes then.

It could be a symbol of X, instead of +. A reference to PB X, perhaps?

Naga Sasra · 1st November 2009, 08:13 PM

Thank you all for your participation and the correct translation, I do understand why Alan wants to stay out of this discussion.

The way I am looking at it presently is that the cross have a certain talismanic value by a part of the community. This answers the why, however this leave yet more questions as an example.

Who was or is that part of the community, was it a certain educational background, was it people connected to the royalty, was it something that was added to enhance the perceived value, or something entirely different?

When in time was this done, is it still done?

Where was this procedure most prevelent, is it mostly done in Solo?

What is the connection that will bring all this information together?

Maybe there is a connection to PB X

Sorry, lots of questions yet to be answered. everyone please join in.

1st November 2009, 08:41 AM	#1
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	That would be the right one. Alan, what kind of talismanic value that normally associated to this kind of kinatah? Was it ever called kinatah, anyway? I doubt that it was created to deter status, as nobody will walk around flaunt the pesi or wearing a keris without the ukiran / hilt...unless if there are secret society / occult meeting which needs you to reveal certain part of the keris. Hmm, I might be seeing much cult movies lately

1st November 2009, 10:18 AM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	Not status, a talismanic value. Nobody bears his talisman visible for all people.

1st November 2009, 12:06 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	I'd like to stay out of this discussion. I'm interested in seeing what opinions might arise.

1st November 2009, 12:31 PM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	We most probably are not able to have a discussion about this. The meaning of this pesi must be clear for Alan and some members who post very seldom. And of course for Haryo Haryoguritno. I think, the information in his book about this kind of pesi is well dosed for a broad public, for most of us.

1st November 2009, 02:40 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	Thank you Moshah and Alan for the correct translation, the last part of the sentence I don't understand really. Agree with Gustav that a talisman don't need to shown open for all people. And it's no surprise that the pesi carry a talisman since it is a very important part of a keris.

1st November 2009, 06:14 PM	#6
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	In my opinion, if it was really for talismanic value, and to be kept unseen, I guess the owner can't simply send his keris to people for cleaning and warangan purposes then. It could be a symbol of X, instead of +. A reference to PB X, perhaps?

1st November 2009, 08:13 PM	#7
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Thank you all for your participation and the correct translation, I do understand why Alan wants to stay out of this discussion. The way I am looking at it presently is that the cross have a certain talismanic value by a part of the community. This answers the why, however this leave yet more questions as an example. Who was or is that part of the community, was it a certain educational background, was it people connected to the royalty, was it something that was added to enhance the perceived value, or something entirely different? When in time was this done, is it still done? Where was this procedure most prevelent, is it mostly done in Solo? What is the connection that will bring all this information together? Maybe there is a connection to PB X Sorry, lots of questions yet to be answered. everyone please join in.