Could the eyelash mark originate from Vienna ?

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent David! A very astute observation, and the thread Michael has begun on North Italian weapons, keyed on the magnificent reference "Armi Bianche Italien" by Boccia & Coelho, is one I would encourage ethnographic collectors to view on the 'European Armoury'.

Here can be seen the key ancestry of many ethnographic weapons, not only in the trade blades that became prevalent in many native weapons, but often in the development of hilt forms such as the kastane and nimcha. There are certainly many other associations and influences that become apparant in looking at examples of these North Italian weapons, which, through extensive trade networks were diffused widely throughout many cultures.

As discussed on the other thread, these eyelash (sickle) marks are indeed distinctly of North Italian origin, though as you have noted, the precise origin remains uncertain. Most opinions consider Genoa as the likely origin of this marking, which was probably more of a guild mark, and as Genoa was the point of departure exporting blades, seems to have made that connection most commonly associated.
In the Maghreb many of the daggers are termed 'janwi' which loosely transliterates from Genoa, noting the origins and perhaps style of the blades, but again, illustrating the importance of the Italian connection in the ethnographic medium.

I am hoping we might see some examples of these markings on the blades of various ethnographic weapons, and other observations and thoughts on the origins and development of the mysterious 'eyelash' markings.

Thanks very much for posting this David!!!!

All best regards,
Jim

[Iliad]

Hi Jim, are these the marks of which you would like examples?
Brian

[Jim McDougall]

Outstanding Brian! This is certainly the Indian version of these eyelash markings, and great illustration of how late these continued being used symbolically by native sword makers.
Many tulwars were produced late in the British Raj for use by troopers in the native cavalry regiments, and though often of munitions quality, represent the pageantry of one of the most colorful military periods.
Thank you posting this.

All the best,
Jim

[spiral]

Intresting thread, Heres a few kukri from my collection showing very similar marks.
Interestingly 2 of them are laminated & one etched. When these marks appear on kukri they usualy imply better than average workmanship.{But not always!}

The little one in the middle, etched to the 4th Gurkha rifles has a 12 inch blade.

Spiral

[katana]

Hi Spiral,
excellent examples on the Kuks, also interesting that it is considered a sign of better quality.

Here are a few more that have been previously posted by Lew, Jens, Norman , Stephen and Tatyana.....nearly all Tulwar blades except no 1 Stephen's unusually marked Kaskara ( which started a debate to whether this was a re-worked Indian blade) Number 2 is Tatyana's Nimcha and Number 3 is Lew's Bichwa.


Regards David

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I am hoping we might see some examples of these markings on the blades of various ethnographic weapons, and other observations and thoughts on the origins and development of the mysterious 'eyelash' markings.

I have this Indian Talwar-Kilij with twelve eyelash markings or at least they are pretty similar.
It's a high quality laminated blade with an old arsenal number (274).

Roland

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I am sure that this subject is one of the keys to understanding Ethnographic weapons down the ages and holds within it answers to the transmission of these extraordinary devices marking the blades. To my eye the curves and dots represent numerous possibilities including blade quality or talisman marks and are sometimes accompanied by the Indian word for foreigner...or Foreign manufacture.. FARANGI. Are these curved strikes moon shapes? Do the three dots mean anything and are they related to the tradition of placing dots on a blade filled with golden coloured metal such as brass. Are they representative of the Fleur de Lys? Given that a lot of Indian blades were made in Europe where were these marks placed...and what were the technicalities of striking the marks?

Below are examples of all the above including dots on the blade and hilt and gold coloured dots on the tip ...The chart shows dot and hogsback stamps and accompaying names including Ferrera, Genoa and hogsback (sickle /eyelash) accompanied by dots only. One blade shows a moon flanked by three crosses on each side...Do the two things mean the same thing; dots for crosses and vice versa?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16083 gives a reasonable set of clues ... and compliments this thread.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Further examples; Showing dots on blades, hilts and scabbards along with and without eyelash marks with and without famous name strikes. Since astrology was fairly strong it follows that the dots could be stars, planets, suns and thus interchangeable (as seen above ) with crosses. Below are a number of swords including Khanda, Tulvar, Shiavona, Takouba, Turkish Kilij, Flysa and even Kukhri...

The Chechens regarded the sickle mark blades as superior and https://books.google.com.om/books?id...blades&f=false describes that they nicknamed them as bitemarks... The Armenians largely cornered the Indian market for imported European blades so it can be seen that they were the main transmission of this type of decorated blade originating in Genoa to India.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here is the blade of an Algerian Nimcha...with the bite marks (hogs back eyelash marks) from what is generally agreed as Genoan origin. (Penciled in the margin; "It may be said that the Algerian and Moroccan Nimcha were very similar and though I have seen elaborate hilts on Algerian including clossonne/enamel and in this case tortoise shell the two forms are virtually identical.)

Please see Swords in the Deccan in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries: Their Manufacture and the Influence of European Imports
Robert Elgood; for an excellent view of how Genoan weapons found their way via Germany to India with "Armenian market savvy dealers" and thus the famous blademark entered India.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I note from atkinson-swords at http://atkinson-swords.com/marks-and...rif-stamp.html a well placed sentence Quote'' Sword blade "blanks" may originate in many countries and were desirable trade goods. Marks added to such blades do not necessarily indicate the forge, armory or original sword-smith. Rather, they may be added locally as markers of quality or "power" of the blade. For example, the "eyelash" or "sickle" marks of Genoa and elsewhere are well known and often imitated, that is, added to blades originating in Germany or the Caucasus. The Mazir-i-Sharif stamp was added to edged weapons and coins in Kabul, Afghanistan.'' Unquote.

[Jens Nordlunde]

I am by no way a specialist, but my guess is, that the very deep marks were made while the steel was very warm, and the not so deep marks were made when the steel was cold.

[kronckew]

they persist into modern times as well, in my georgian khevsurli sword...

gratuitous marking on another probably older khukuri included for comparison.