The wooden fighting sword-sticks of Crete

fearn · 2nd October 2009, 06:30 PM

Hi Marc,

Thanks for the references!

To clarify my side, the Guanches ( Wikipedia link) had a long sword/club they called a magado or magido (it's listed as a mace on Wikipedia, but other references say it was long, wooden and sword-like). That's what I was wondering about. Supposedly, the magido was a chief's weapon, and they actually beat the Spaniards with this and other indigenous weapons, which makes for a good story (and might be true. A 15th Century British sailor with a quarterstaff took on a number of Spanish swordsman in duels, and beat them all).

I can easily believe that the guanches got the idea and the name "magido" from Basque whalers, but I was wondering what the Canary Island version looked like. And yes, I've read everything I can get my hands on regarding Juego del palo. I'm unclear on how much that sport is a descendent of the guanche martial traditions, and how much came over with the Europeans.

Best,

F

kronckew · 3rd October 2009, 09:40 AM

on a more delicate note, here is a british victorian era defence cane, it's about 33.5 in long, 1.5 in wide just ahead of the bulbous grip, 1/2 in. thick at the same point. it's tear-drop shaped in cross section with a fairly sharp 'edge' to concentrate a blow's force. the shaft tapers to a 1/2 in. wide x 1/4 in thick tip. it's made of a hard unknown reddish wood with a fair patina. i doubt it's heavy enough to break bones, but it is sufficient to hurt & see off a less determined assailant, and the tip can be used in thrusting against a throat, eyes, or into a mouth with effect.

Victorian cane defence video linky

also includes irish stick fighting

the cane as a defence weapon linky

partway down the page... some interesting links on english stick fighting.
i'd assume that as a gentlemans cane was a fashion item in the 1800's, many countries would know the gentle art of bashing out someone's brains with a stick.

Marc · 5th October 2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Hi Marc,

Thanks for the references!

To clarify my side, the Guanches ( Wikipedia link) had a long sword/club they called a magado or magido (it's listed as a mace on Wikipedia, but other references say it was long, wooden and sword-like). That's what I was wondering about. Supposedly, the magido was a chief's weapon, and they actually beat the Spaniards with this and other indigenous weapons, which makes for a good story (and might be true. A 15th Century British sailor with a quarterstaff took on a number of Spanish swordsman in duels, and beat them all).

I can easily believe that the guanches got the idea and the name "magido" from Basque whalers, but I was wondering what the Canary Island version looked like. And yes, I've read everything I can get my hands on regarding Juego del palo. I'm unclear on how much that sport is a descendent of the guanche martial traditions, and how much came over with the Europeans.

Best,

F

Hi, Fearn.

You're welcome

It's my turn to clarify a bit... the magado was a Guanche club, made of hardwood and with a protusion at one end (think knobkerry or that Victorian cane kronckew posted above), and seemingly used one-handed. They also had what they called a mejido, apparently some kind of wooden sword, with hilt and guard and also fairly sharp and pointy. The "modern" palo canario is longer, with a more or less of regular width and used with one and two-handed techniques. They have no morphological relationship, and I haven't seen anyone claiming any, beyond the fact that the palo canario practitioners say their Art goes back to the Guanches, with all the ethnological complications when trying to prove it.
The etymology of the name, as far as I know, goes back to the Guanche language, no relationship whatsoever with the Basque makila.

And regarding the English sailor... well, yes I heard that one. Many times. His name was Richard Peek, a 17th c. sailor. He claims to have done the deed in Xeres, and afterward having been brought to Madrid to meet the King, offered goods and fortune, that he refused for love to his Country and King. Funny how the only description (notice I haven’t even mentioned evidences) of the events that happened to Peek are to be found in the book written by Peek. But who am I to question such a beautiful story...

fearn · 5th October 2009, 05:16 PM

That helps Marc. The english-language web references to Guanche weapons are confused (unsurprising), and it's nice to know what those weapons are.

As for the makila/magado thing, I'm pretty sure you were right. I was speculating based on three grounds:

1. If one believes Wikipedia, the mejido wooden swords were inspired by European swords.

2. G and K (hard G as in english) are closely related letters. A great example is my Korean partner's name. Her name is spelled with a K in English and a G equivalent in Hangul. L to D seems to be an occasional shift in Berber languages, which include Guanche It's a muddled argument (and I'm NOT a linguist), but I could see someone introducing a sword-like stick called a Makila, and the name being blurred by translation and use.

3. The Basques started hunting Right Whales in the Bay of Biscay in the 1200s, and were sailing to Newfoundland by 1530, and they pioneered whaling. Right whales were found in small numbers around the Canaries. The Spanish started conquering the Canary Islands in 1402. That leaves about a 200 year window when Basque whaleboats could have been visiting the Canary Islands. What I don't know is when the Basques stopped shore whaling and started deep-sea hunting. However, they were Atlantic ocean pioneers, and I'd expect them to be among the first to visit the Canary Islands in Medieval times.

As I said, speculation, and unless there's good linguistic or historical evidence, it's idle speculation, although it makes for fun reading.

As for Peek? Must be annoying to hear that story over and over again.

Best,

F

Marc · 6th October 2009, 03:19 PM

Regarding the etymology of the word, I'm not a linguist, neither, I just repeat what some linguists do claim, that's all

Oh, and don't worry about the Peek thing. I practise historical fencing, based on the Spanish 17th c. fencing tradition, so you can easily guess this episode gets tossed around a lot, specially in international meetings. After all this time, I ended up developing a certain sympathy for Mr. Peek. Sort of.

fearn · 8th October 2009, 02:47 AM

But no pics of the Mejido or magado...

5th October 2009, 05:16 PM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	That helps Marc. The english-language web references to Guanche weapons are confused (unsurprising), and it's nice to know what those weapons are. As for the makila/magado thing, I'm pretty sure you were right. I was speculating based on three grounds: 1. If one believes Wikipedia, the mejido wooden swords were inspired by European swords. 2. G and K (hard G as in english) are closely related letters. A great example is my Korean partner's name. Her name is spelled with a K in English and a G equivalent in Hangul. L to D seems to be an occasional shift in Berber languages, which include Guanche It's a muddled argument (and I'm NOT a linguist), but I could see someone introducing a sword-like stick called a Makila, and the name being blurred by translation and use. 3. The Basques started hunting Right Whales in the Bay of Biscay in the 1200s, and were sailing to Newfoundland by 1530, and they pioneered whaling. Right whales were found in small numbers around the Canaries. The Spanish started conquering the Canary Islands in 1402. That leaves about a 200 year window when Basque whaleboats could have been visiting the Canary Islands. What I don't know is when the Basques stopped shore whaling and started deep-sea hunting. However, they were Atlantic ocean pioneers, and I'd expect them to be among the first to visit the Canary Islands in Medieval times. As I said, speculation, and unless there's good linguistic or historical evidence, it's idle speculation, although it makes for fun reading. As for Peek? Must be annoying to hear that story over and over again. Best, F Last edited by fearn; 5th October 2009 at 05:28 PM.

2nd October 2009, 06:30 PM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Marc, Thanks for the references! To clarify my side, the Guanches ( Wikipedia link) had a long sword/club they called a magado or magido (it's listed as a mace on Wikipedia, but other references say it was long, wooden and sword-like). That's what I was wondering about. Supposedly, the magido was a chief's weapon, and they actually beat the Spaniards with this and other indigenous weapons, which makes for a good story (and might be true. A 15th Century British sailor with a quarterstaff took on a number of Spanish swordsman in duels, and beat them all). I can easily believe that the guanches got the idea and the name "magido" from Basque whalers, but I was wondering what the Canary Island version looked like. And yes, I've read everything I can get my hands on regarding Juego del palo. I'm unclear on how much that sport is a descendent of the guanche martial traditions, and how much came over with the Europeans. Best, F

3rd October 2009, 09:40 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	on a more delicate note, here is a british victorian era defence cane, it's about 33.5 in long, 1.5 in wide just ahead of the bulbous grip, 1/2 in. thick at the same point. it's tear-drop shaped in cross section with a fairly sharp 'edge' to concentrate a blow's force. the shaft tapers to a 1/2 in. wide x 1/4 in thick tip. it's made of a hard unknown reddish wood with a fair patina. i doubt it's heavy enough to break bones, but it is sufficient to hurt & see off a less determined assailant, and the tip can be used in thrusting against a throat, eyes, or into a mouth with effect. Victorian cane defence video linky also includes irish stick fighting the cane as a defence weapon linky partway down the page... some interesting links on english stick fighting. i'd assume that as a gentlemans cane was a fashion item in the 1800's, many countries would know the gentle art of bashing out someone's brains with a stick.

6th October 2009, 03:19 PM	#5
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Regarding the etymology of the word, I'm not a linguist, neither, I just repeat what some linguists do claim, that's all Oh, and don't worry about the Peek thing. I practise historical fencing, based on the Spanish 17th c. fencing tradition, so you can easily guess this episode gets tossed around a lot, specially in international meetings. After all this time, I ended up developing a certain sympathy for Mr. Peek. Sort of.

8th October 2009, 02:47 AM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	But no pics of the Mejido or magado...