UNUSUAL KILIJ FITTINGS - ... EAST EUROPEAN?

ilias · 14th September 2009, 09:33 PM

Hi Alex.
The most of the weapons that Greeks used at The Independence War at 1821 are Ottoman.You see when they won a fight they collected the weapons of the dead enemies and they used them.Anyone who had enough money remounted the blades or the daggers or the rifles by his wish usually with silver.The remounting was done by local artists and the decoration was quite the same.You can also find similar decoration at cartridge boxes.The motives was done either engraving the metal like yours or engraving and niello but with more details at the figures.I will provide to you toomorrow some pictures from swords with figures quite like yours with niello work.
Also check that cartridge box from Artzi.http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2171
Best
Ilias

ilias · 14th September 2009, 10:18 PM

Hi Alex again.
I have just found a sword at a book of mine.It is an Ottoman kilij with Greek mounts.The scabbard is silver with niello.It also shows a human figure and a dragon.The writter doesn't explain the symbolism of the theme.I believe that the meaning is the Greek warrior that fights the Dragon(Ottomans).You see the theme is the same but it changes the quality of the job.The better the artist the better the quality of the job.You see the folk artists didn't had the skills of a painter so the quality of the figures sometimes are bad just the figure to reminds human.I will try to find images where you can see the blades of the swords.Any name on the back side of the scabbard?
Best
Ilias

Philip · 14th September 2009, 11:33 PM

I agree that a likely explanation of the man-fighting-dragon iconography is a depiction of St. George and his epic struggle. In Western European art, George is usually depicted on horseback, but the the cases seen here, it could be a variation on a familiar theme.

Other Christian themes I've seen on Greek-remounted Ottoman blades are the Agnus Dei, and the Lion of St. Mark. Years ago I had a yataghan, with a fairly ordinary Turkish blade with the somewhat crude chiseled inscription, in a magnificent silver scabbard, most likely Greek, with the lion emblem chased on the front center portion. I'm still kicking myself for trading it off for something -- for what I can no longer remember so it probably wasn't a very wise decision although it probably made financial sense at the time.

ariel · 15th September 2009, 12:37 AM

Ilias,
What book is that?

14th September 2009, 10:18 PM	#2
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	Hi Alex again. I have just found a sword at a book of mine.It is an Ottoman kilij with Greek mounts.The scabbard is silver with niello.It also shows a human figure and a dragon.The writter doesn't explain the symbolism of the theme.I believe that the meaning is the Greek warrior that fights the Dragon(Ottomans).You see the theme is the same but it changes the quality of the job.The better the artist the better the quality of the job.You see the folk artists didn't had the skills of a painter so the quality of the figures sometimes are bad just the figure to reminds human.I will try to find images where you can see the blades of the swords.Any name on the back side of the scabbard? Best Ilias Attached Images

14th September 2009, 11:33 PM	#3
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Christian themes I agree that a likely explanation of the man-fighting-dragon iconography is a depiction of St. George and his epic struggle. In Western European art, George is usually depicted on horseback, but the the cases seen here, it could be a variation on a familiar theme. Other Christian themes I've seen on Greek-remounted Ottoman blades are the Agnus Dei, and the Lion of St. Mark. Years ago I had a yataghan, with a fairly ordinary Turkish blade with the somewhat crude chiseled inscription, in a magnificent silver scabbard, most likely Greek, with the lion emblem chased on the front center portion. I'm still kicking myself for trading it off for something -- for what I can no longer remember so it probably wasn't a very wise decision although it probably made financial sense at the time.

14th September 2009, 09:33 PM	#1
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	Hi Alex. The most of the weapons that Greeks used at The Independence War at 1821 are Ottoman.You see when they won a fight they collected the weapons of the dead enemies and they used them.Anyone who had enough money remounted the blades or the daggers or the rifles by his wish usually with silver.The remounting was done by local artists and the decoration was quite the same.You can also find similar decoration at cartridge boxes.The motives was done either engraving the metal like yours or engraving and niello but with more details at the figures.I will provide to you toomorrow some pictures from swords with figures quite like yours with niello work. Also check that cartridge box from Artzi.http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2171 Best Ilias

15th September 2009, 12:37 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Ilias, What book is that?