panabas

[Federico]

Originally Posted by Bill

Pigafetta: "They shot so many arrows at us and hurled so many bamboo spears, some of them tipped with iron, at the Captain-General, besides pointed stakes hardened with fire, stones, and mud, that we could scarcely defend ourselves." (Magellan's 49 against 3 divisions, est. 1,500) From what I have been able to find, early 16thC, blowpipes & wooden arrows seem to the majority of weapons in the PI, I have little doubt that metal working is throughout the PI at this time but nothing to the extent that it is in Brunei and Celebes. As Brunei excercises control over most of the PI, it would make no sence to promote swordmaking. By the latter half of the 16thC this seems to change to a well armed Southern PI, this might be explained by the support of the Sultans of Brunei & Makassar in thier support of the "Moro" against the Spanish. As far as cannon making, Brunei was making them, but if you do a little searching you will find that the cannon making in Luzon is introduced by either the Japanese or two shipwrecked Spanish sailors, take your pick, but I haven't seen anything that claims early 15thC cannon making in the PI.

Brunei control of parts of PI was nothing like European colonial control of native islands. Again, the Sultan of Brunei and the Sultan of Tondo (later to become Manila) were blood relatives, not a question of colonial overlordship. I have not read any references (if you have I would be interested in reading them) that would show the Brunei relationship to PI was anywhere similar to European colonialism, in which weapon making and usage was dissuaded. Particularly, during this time, in this area, such a decree would be an open invitation for slavers to rape the area, and as far as I have encountered, such an event did not occur. The book Barangay goes into good detail about the wide spread diffusion of steel weaponry at the time. Including trade networks and relationships.

As for cannon, Panday Pira is found in the fourth chapter of Antonio de Morga's "Sucesos de las Islas Filipinas" (first edition, Mexico 1609). This chapter relates the events during the term of Spanish Governor-General Santiago de Vera and makes reference to a foundry run by Panday Pira:

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"[de Vera] built the stone fortress of Our Lady of the Way, inside the city of Manila on the land side, and for its defense, he had set up a foundry for the making of artillery under the hands of an old indio called Pandapira, a native of the province of Pampanga. He and his sons served in this line of work until their deaths many years later."

Now there is controversy whether or not this means he was making large cannon, or smaller lantaka (as in Borneo at the time), and that the making of large cannon was later introduced by the Spanish, but if we go back to the primary source of Morga, the direct quote would suggest that there is some form of artillery making, though not necessarily to the extent that say Jose Rizal would claim. Then again there is also suggestion that this skill came from and was run by Portugese. As for Japan the same statement of European revolution of cannon making holds true. Before they encountered Europeans, Japanese cannon were relatively primative metal tubes, modelled after Chinese examples, it was their encounters with the Portugese in the mid 16th century that they start to ramp up artillery production, but the biggest revolution for them comes in modelling Portuegese arquebuses.

[themorningstar]

it wasn't a "campilane" or a panabas... it was a terciada...

[Bill]

ment that last 15thC to be 16thC. Any examples of a terciada? Wasn't trying to compare Brunei dominance to European dominance but the purpose is really the same isn't it. Marrage was used by both for alliances, it all boils down to dominance of trade, not to offend anyone but the "missionary" spread of religion is often used to control a group & used and a excuse to kill them if they don't conform to control. If we look from early 16thC to late 16thC there is conciderable change in the amount of swords in the PI. Logic would seem to say, to fight the Spanish. You have Brunei & Celebes both well armed & both, that by the second half of the 16thC don't want the Spanish in thier backyards. Brunei, early 16thC has a large Bugis population. This time period the keris is throughout Celebes. Every "borneo" keris I have seen is Bugis. Seems that in a 50 year period we go from no mention of the "Moro" kris to Spanish accounts that seem to indicate that all "Moro" warriors welded one. A very quick evolution of a sword, unless of course, it already existed and was supplied.

[themorningstar]

oh.. i was just pointing out that your probably one of the few who noticed that the sword was a terciada, good eyes... guess what?... you probably already have one in your collection...

[Rick]

Originally Posted by themorningstar

oh.. i was just pointing out that your probably one of the few who noticed that the sword was a terciada, good eyes... guess what?... you probably already have one in your collection...

All right , spill it .
Describe for me a terciada , I can't stand the suspense anymore .
I , for one need to be enlightened .

[Ian]

Explain terciada please.

[Conogre]

ditto on my part, please.
Doea anyone have a photograpgh or good written description of the sword called a terciada?
Mike

[Bill]

Pigaffeta's account certainly can be argued from what "version", you read. Originally written in Italian, I believe it was translated to Spanish & French, then Spanish & French to English, then sort of picked & chosen by researchers which suited them. Other writings of Pigaffeta were in time incorperated into his account, as well as statements & letters of the few crewmen that survived. & I think what I just wrote could be debated. I have a feeling the answer to "terciado" is going to be a kris, but Pigafetta describes the sword as a scimtar, only larger. So, is a scimtar a Kampilan (or Panabus) & a Campilan a kris. What would the terminoligy of a 16thC Italian with a Spanish/Portuguese crew be, for cutlass & scimtar?