Sword Shipping

Jens Nordlunde · 1st September 2009, 06:03 PM

Celtan,

This has been discussed before, some years ago, try to make a search, or ask Mark if he can remember what the thread was called.

A few years ago I had a small dagger stopped in Germany and returned to the US, although the end address was Switzerland, and someone whom I heard about, he is living in Germany, got a dagger with an ivory hilt, confiscated – as the CITE certificate was missing – he was not even allowed to give it to a museum. So do read Mark’s CITES - An Informal Guide.

It is a big problem for collectors and for dealers, so try to do the utmost to check how to do it best - before sending the weapons.

Jim McDougall · 2nd September 2009, 01:13 AM

Well placed comments Jens, I think that thread presents excellent information concerning the many pertinant details confronted by collectors in shipping these items through many international channels. There are many complexities as laws and thier applications are rapidly changing and new ones being implemented.

Moving on to the subject matter in this thread, I have been reading with great interest, and would submit to our members and readers:

I think informational discussion is a good thing, and awareness of potential problems certainly a sound topic, but please gentlemen, caution in revealing or suggesting means or ideas in circumventing rules, regulations or laws in place that might be construed as potentially illegal (as Andrew has helpfully noted, distinctly cited in rule 7).

These threads are internationally read, and undoubtedly monitored in at least some degree, so please write accordingly.

The helpful and informative disclosure of the legal statutes and thier enforcement in various international governments is helpful, but should be left at that. Editorials or crtiticisms are counterproductive and measures in response or thoughts of circumvention should be discussed privately only, and considered with extreme caution.

I think we have all experienced frustrating situations with customs or various officials in shipping or receiving items at various times, but I think that thorough understanding of the details of laws would prevent problems.
Many of the situations involve improper wording, inaccurate data or questionable materials seem mostly at the base of many situations.

As for the information detailing the laws in place in various countries and policies in various mediums of transport, thanks to those who have added that detail for reference.

All best regards,
Jim

celtan · 3rd September 2009, 09:05 AM

Hi Jens,

Couldn't find th thread. OTOH, Custom's regulations have changed a lot recently, what applied years ago probably won't apply today. This is specially true in the good ole' US of A as well as in the British Commonwealth.

AFAIK, British customs may be strict, but they are relatively unambiguous, and their mail system is as good or better than the US.

So... we still need to hear input from Germany, Spain, Russia, Israel, etc...

Best

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Celtan,

This has been discussed before, some years ago, try to make a search, or ask Mark if he can remember what the thread was called.

A few years ago I had a small dagger stopped in Germany and returned to the US, although the end address was Switzerland, and someone whom I heard about, he is living in Germany, got a dagger with an ivory hilt, confiscated – as the CITE certificate was missing – he was not even allowed to give it to a museum. So do read Mark’s CITES - An Informal Guide.

It is a big problem for collectors and for dealers, so try to do the utmost to check how to do it best - before sending the weapons.

kahnjar1 · 4th September 2009, 10:27 PM

Here is a first hand example of what can happen if items are not described correctly. This regulation was covered in the "New Zealand" thread above, and it shows the need for the SELLER to abide by the buyers requests, (which was CLEARLY given) when shipping items. Also to COMMUNICATE to the buyer any laws applicable to the originating country, which would stop the seller from declaring accurately, BEFORE sending anything.
I have just this week had an item seized by NZ Customs as it was not described correctly. My Permit to Import this particular item has also been revoked, and I am none too pleased, I can tell you!
The seller, in this case from the UK, now tells me that he could not describe item correctly, as it would have precluded him from exporting it. Bit late now I would have thought!

Traps for the unwary. Maybe someone with first hand knowledge of the UK laws as they stand now, could give us all a brief overview. I for one will not be buying anything else from UK dealers, if this is going to be an ongoing issue.
Regards Stuart

celtan · 5th September 2009, 12:50 AM

Sorry you went through that. A lot of questions go through my mind when exporting or importing a sword.
I recall SAC's motto : "Knowledge is Power".
Questions are like Scouts, they may prevent an ambush if you get the right answer...before the event. It's no fun learning by own experience.
Best
M

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Here is a first hand example of what can happen if items are not described correctly. This regulation was covered in the "New Zealand" thread above, and it shows the need for the SELLER to abide by the buyers requests, (which was CLEARLY given) when shipping items. Also to COMMUNICATE to the buyer any laws applicable to the originating country, which would stop the seller from declaring accurately, BEFORE sending anything.
I have just this week had an item seized by NZ Customs as it was not described correctly. My Permit to Import this particular item has also been revoked, and I am none too pleased, I can tell you!
The seller, in this case from the UK, now tells me that he could not describe item correctly, as it would have precluded him from exporting it. Bit late now I would have thought!

Traps for the unwary. Maybe someone with first hand knowledge of the UK laws as they stand now, could give us all a brief overview. I for one will not be buying anything else from UK dealers, if this is going to be an ongoing issue.
Regards Stuart

kahnjar1 · 5th September 2009, 04:37 AM

Hi Manolo,
Yes I definately agree that knowledge is power. The thing which most gets up my nose over this particular issue, is that the seller in this case, OBVIOUSLY knows that declaring blades correctly, precludes him from trading outside the UK, and is not communicating the need to mis-declare items to his potential buyers. I do not wish to, and will not, name the guilty party, but no doubt he will come unstuck eventually. The problem (for him) will of course only arise if, as in my case, the country to which he ships has a vigilant Customs Service.
Regards S

katana · 15th September 2009, 05:05 PM

Hi
interesting thread.

Are there issues, regarding sending a sword from the UK to the US, that I should be aware of. (taxes, declaration forms etc) Thank you

Regards David

Jens Nordlunde · 15th September 2009, 05:47 PM

It is an interesting thread, but it is not easy to get a clear overview.

Maybe under Discussion forum, CITES - An Informal Guide we could add web addresses to Societies dealing with this issue and/or web addresses to law pages in the different countries. If we could get the different web pages collected it would be far easier to get a the needed overview, and these pages will always be updated.

The address to the Swiss police web page on the issue is www.fedpol.admin.ch

4th September 2009, 10:27 PM	#4
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,818	SEIZED ITEM Here is a first hand example of what can happen if items are not described correctly. This regulation was covered in the "New Zealand" thread above, and it shows the need for the SELLER to abide by the buyers requests, (which was CLEARLY given) when shipping items. Also to COMMUNICATE to the buyer any laws applicable to the originating country, which would stop the seller from declaring accurately, BEFORE sending anything. I have just this week had an item seized by NZ Customs as it was not described correctly. My Permit to Import this particular item has also been revoked, and I am none too pleased, I can tell you! The seller, in this case from the UK, now tells me that he could not describe item correctly, as it would have precluded him from exporting it. Bit late now I would have thought! Traps for the unwary. Maybe someone with first hand knowledge of the UK laws as they stand now, could give us all a brief overview. I for one will not be buying anything else from UK dealers, if this is going to be an ongoing issue. Regards Stuart

1st September 2009, 06:03 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Celtan, This has been discussed before, some years ago, try to make a search, or ask Mark if he can remember what the thread was called. A few years ago I had a small dagger stopped in Germany and returned to the US, although the end address was Switzerland, and someone whom I heard about, he is living in Germany, got a dagger with an ivory hilt, confiscated – as the CITE certificate was missing – he was not even allowed to give it to a museum. So do read Mark’s CITES - An Informal Guide. It is a big problem for collectors and for dealers, so try to do the utmost to check how to do it best - before sending the weapons.

2nd September 2009, 01:13 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,736	Well placed comments Jens, I think that thread presents excellent information concerning the many pertinant details confronted by collectors in shipping these items through many international channels. There are many complexities as laws and thier applications are rapidly changing and new ones being implemented. Moving on to the subject matter in this thread, I have been reading with great interest, and would submit to our members and readers: I think informational discussion is a good thing, and awareness of potential problems certainly a sound topic, but please gentlemen, caution in revealing or suggesting means or ideas in circumventing rules, regulations or laws in place that might be construed as potentially illegal (as Andrew has helpfully noted, distinctly cited in rule 7). These threads are internationally read, and undoubtedly monitored in at least some degree, so please write accordingly. The helpful and informative disclosure of the legal statutes and thier enforcement in various international governments is helpful, but should be left at that. Editorials or crtiticisms are counterproductive and measures in response or thoughts of circumvention should be discussed privately only, and considered with extreme caution. I think we have all experienced frustrating situations with customs or various officials in shipping or receiving items at various times, but I think that thorough understanding of the details of laws would prevent problems. Many of the situations involve improper wording, inaccurate data or questionable materials seem mostly at the base of many situations. As for the information detailing the laws in place in various countries and policies in various mediums of transport, thanks to those who have added that detail for reference. All best regards, Jim

5th September 2009, 04:37 AM	#6
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,818	Hi Manolo, Yes I definately agree that knowledge is power. The thing which most gets up my nose over this particular issue, is that the seller in this case, OBVIOUSLY knows that declaring blades correctly, precludes him from trading outside the UK, and is not communicating the need to mis-declare items to his potential buyers. I do not wish to, and will not, name the guilty party, but no doubt he will come unstuck eventually. The problem (for him) will of course only arise if, as in my case, the country to which he ships has a vigilant Customs Service. Regards S

15th September 2009, 05:05 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi interesting thread. Are there issues, regarding sending a sword from the UK to the US, that I should be aware of. (taxes, declaration forms etc) Thank you Regards David

15th September 2009, 05:47 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	It is an interesting thread, but it is not easy to get a clear overview. Maybe under Discussion forum, CITES - An Informal Guide we could add web addresses to Societies dealing with this issue and/or web addresses to law pages in the different countries. If we could get the different web pages collected it would be far easier to get a the needed overview, and these pages will always be updated. The address to the Swiss police web page on the issue is www.fedpol.admin.ch