Jambiya Blade Construction

kahnjar1 · 25th August 2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Stuart

I approached this subject some time ago here is the link.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=jambiya

The rib on your new purchase is squared which to me seems two pieces pressed together.

Lew

Hi Lew,
I hoped you would reply to this, and thanks for the link to the previous thread. I see that I replied to that one at the time also, and my thoughts/cautions re Yemeni blades was expressed then. I can imagine that in a poor country, cheap methods of manufacture would prevail for the "masses" but I would still like opinions regarding the genuine-ness (if its a correct word) of these sandwich blades. Your comments in the previous thread regarding age is very helpful, and I would like to comment about a much older piece, but the Forum rules do not allow me to do this at the moment.
Sufficient to say that the piece shown in the pic, has according to the seller, a solid blade. I can only assume from that comment, that its is not two piece. When it arrives I will know more, and by then I should be able to make further comment within the rules also.

Thanks also to Michael for his historical input to these different blade making styles. He confirms my suspicion that the two piece construction is much cheaper and easier to make. The fact that these were made as a type for the poorer person, also confirms for me these these are indeed a genuine article, and not just something cheap to lure tourists.
Regards Stuart

Steve · 25th August 2009, 03:53 AM

Hi Guys,
I may be able to shead a little light onto the squared rib debate on the jambiya blade. It's my experience that the rib is squared to that the dagger can fit neatly into the scabbard. As the scabbards are made in bulk as a separate process to the making of the dagger, they are not fitted uniquely and are of variable quality. In other words the scabbard is nowadays not uniquely made for each dagger. Some craftsmanship has been lost over the years in this area. So they adjust the rib on the blade by grinding so as to produce a snug fit.

The extension of this process is that a squared rib is usually indicative of a more recent manufacture, or blade replacement, but can apply to a solid as well as a hollow blade.

My observation only,
Steve

kahnjar1 · 25th August 2009, 06:05 AM

Hi Steve,
I personally do not think that square vs rounded has anything to do with the scabbard fit. Most, if not all the scabbards of Jambiyas/Khanjars I have in my collection do NOT have "fitted" scabbard centres, but are as shown in this pic: simply a curved profile on both internal sides. IF scabbards are made in bulk and mated with Jambiya at a later stage, the more important aspect would be to do with blade length, width and curvature.
Regards Stu

Steve · 25th August 2009, 08:18 AM

Hi stu,
Just a quick reply across the Tasman while the rest of the world sleeps.

As you would appreciate in years past the manufacture of the jambiya had very specific specialisation of labour. Once the blade and hilt were chosen and fitted, the scabbard was made to fit - with or without silver mounts. The scabbard was altered to accommodate the dagger.

Today they are still made separately - the scabbard in house and the mass blades shaped from blanks in the souq. However the dagger blade is shaped by template - lenghth, width, curve etc. as you mentioned -to fit a scabbard type and any final adjustments are made to the dagger blade when fitting. This often involves a flat rib profile which provides a more universal fit. This I have seen. A thickened ridge line is usually found in the more desirable and older Hadrami blades. I also have a few daggers very similar to your one with the grind flattening marks on the ridge still visible.

With regards your last photo posted above. I think the dagger in your first set of photos would be made to fit the usual scabbard design now mostly made. That is "asseb" style,flat, thin, wide, wood liners and covered with green or tan leather. The wood liners in your last photo are made and fitted differently.

All very interesting,
Regards,
Steve

kahnjar1 · 25th August 2009, 09:18 AM

Hi Steve,
The last pic relates to the other pics and is the same scabbard, not from another Jambiya. I bow to your knowledge regarding the manufacture of these things. I do know that old Jambiyas/Khanjars were tribal items, hence I would have thought a certain lack of standardisation, though similar in regional shape. I have a number of Omani Khanjar, and while the basic shape is constant, the "sizing" is not.
You have PM
Regards Stuart

Lew · 25th August 2009, 12:42 PM

Steve

The squared rib is the product of the die used in the press and not the result of someone trying to get a better fit in the scabbard. Wood and leather do give so even if the rib was a few microns or a mm off they would fit.

Oriental-Arms · 25th August 2009, 04:48 PM

For the benefits of us who are not sure what is the meaning of two pieces blade or sandwich blade or whatever you call it, I took the liberty to show a close up of such a blade which I spared and opened the welding (It was easier than easy).

And fully opened:

I have never been to Yemen and never seen how it is being done (I wish I could but due to certain political obstacles I can not do it). But in my very humble opinion, at least the blade shown above is of very poor quality. It is made of two thin, 0.5 mm thick, galvanized iron sheet pressed in a die (see Lew comment above) and badly welded (not soldered), which make the task of splitting it open very easy. In my very humble opinion, the round rib or the squared rib is only a question of who pressed the blade on what die.

I am afraid we can not regard it as a weapon or a tool and only hardly accept it as a traditional costume artifact.

25th August 2009, 06:05 AM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,809	Hi Steve, I personally do not think that square vs rounded has anything to do with the scabbard fit. Most, if not all the scabbards of Jambiyas/Khanjars I have in my collection do NOT have "fitted" scabbard centres, but are as shown in this pic: simply a curved profile on both internal sides. IF scabbards are made in bulk and mated with Jambiya at a later stage, the more important aspect would be to do with blade length, width and curvature. Regards Stu Attached Images

25th August 2009, 04:48 PM	#7
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	Sandwich blade For the benefits of us who are not sure what is the meaning of two pieces blade or sandwich blade or whatever you call it, I took the liberty to show a close up of such a blade which I spared and opened the welding (It was easier than easy). And fully opened: I have never been to Yemen and never seen how it is being done (I wish I could but due to certain political obstacles I can not do it). But in my very humble opinion, at least the blade shown above is of very poor quality. It is made of two thin, 0.5 mm thick, galvanized iron sheet pressed in a die (see Lew comment above) and badly welded (not soldered), which make the task of splitting it open very easy. In my very humble opinion, the round rib or the squared rib is only a question of who pressed the blade on what die. I am afraid we can not regard it as a weapon or a tool and only hardly accept it as a traditional costume artifact.

25th August 2009, 03:53 AM	#2
Steve Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sydney Posts: 58	Hi Guys, I may be able to shead a little light onto the squared rib debate on the jambiya blade. It's my experience that the rib is squared to that the dagger can fit neatly into the scabbard. As the scabbards are made in bulk as a separate process to the making of the dagger, they are not fitted uniquely and are of variable quality. In other words the scabbard is nowadays not uniquely made for each dagger. Some craftsmanship has been lost over the years in this area. So they adjust the rib on the blade by grinding so as to produce a snug fit. The extension of this process is that a squared rib is usually indicative of a more recent manufacture, or blade replacement, but can apply to a solid as well as a hollow blade. My observation only, Steve

25th August 2009, 08:18 AM	#4
Steve Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sydney Posts: 58	Hi stu, Just a quick reply across the Tasman while the rest of the world sleeps. As you would appreciate in years past the manufacture of the jambiya had very specific specialisation of labour. Once the blade and hilt were chosen and fitted, the scabbard was made to fit - with or without silver mounts. The scabbard was altered to accommodate the dagger. Today they are still made separately - the scabbard in house and the mass blades shaped from blanks in the souq. However the dagger blade is shaped by template - lenghth, width, curve etc. as you mentioned -to fit a scabbard type and any final adjustments are made to the dagger blade when fitting. This often involves a flat rib profile which provides a more universal fit. This I have seen. A thickened ridge line is usually found in the more desirable and older Hadrami blades. I also have a few daggers very similar to your one with the grind flattening marks on the ridge still visible. With regards your last photo posted above. I think the dagger in your first set of photos would be made to fit the usual scabbard design now mostly made. That is "asseb" style,flat, thin, wide, wood liners and covered with green or tan leather. The wood liners in your last photo are made and fitted differently. All very interesting, Regards, Steve

25th August 2009, 09:18 AM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,809	Hi Steve, The last pic relates to the other pics and is the same scabbard, not from another Jambiya. I bow to your knowledge regarding the manufacture of these things. I do know that old Jambiyas/Khanjars were tribal items, hence I would have thought a certain lack of standardisation, though similar in regional shape. I have a number of Omani Khanjar, and while the basic shape is constant, the "sizing" is not. You have PM Regards Stuart

25th August 2009, 12:42 PM	#6
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Steve The squared rib is the product of the die used in the press and not the result of someone trying to get a better fit in the scabbard. Wood and leather do give so even if the rib was a few microns or a mm off they would fit.