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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nipmuc USA
Posts: 523
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,247
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Come on Hotspur!
Anyway, Gonzalo, Bridge in French is "pont" so I think that's a proper derivation for pontoon (little bridge). As for that ESPADroon... what do you think? Is it a little sword, a big sword, or a frenchified spanish sword? ![]() Frank |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nipmuc USA
Posts: 523
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Hi Frank,
Just where should we go? ![]() Cheers Hotspur; I am truly not one to worry about it a great deal |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,247
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Sorry, I don't click on links that say "Click on me." Call it paranoia.
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#5 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
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Hi Fearn and Gonzalo,
As already resumed in post # 3: Spadroon: Obs. exc. Hist.1798 (ad. Genevan dialect espadron,= french espadon) A sword much lighter than a broadsword, and made both to cut and thrust. (The Oxford Universal Dictionary) Yes, Fearn, it is a fact that the augmentative suffix on, one or ão (portuguese), may also have a diminutive sense. This exception however sometimes is not correlative between latinic languages. Chaton, in portuguese gatão, is not often used, but does have the sense of large cat. Ah, Gonzalo, pelota would very a popular term in spanish but is indeed a fench word (pelote), inherited from the provençal (pelota). Pontoon, ponton, pontão is fact a bridge making element, but is also a little bridge, this being the aception mostly used in Portugal/portuguese. Fernando |
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#6 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,459
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OK, I think I have taxed my limited ability to comprehend linguistics beyond the limit
![]() We know the 'katar' daggers of India were inadvertantly labeled such in an error of early arms writers, and should be called 'jemadhar'. But after the term has become formly emplaced in arms literature for over a century, it seems moot to try to correct what is colloquially established. This discussion of the term spadroon has been enlightening and fascinating, but I'm all for learning more on the forms of these 'swords' and the variations of examples from England, to the U.S. and France. Glen, BTW, thank you for the fantastic 'harvesting' !! and showing all the great examples. I think it would be a great idea for a thread, or perhaps number of threads, to discuss for example a glossary of sword terms, with each example having some of the etymology and colloquial possibilities. I know there are many terms with considerable debate that has ensued through the years, for example pas' d' ane ; fuller/ channel/ blood gutter etc. . Not here, but on another thread. I am incredibly impressed with the knowledge on linguistics and etymology seen here!!! so it would seem we are well versed enough to archive a great thread on these. Meanwhile, back to the 'spadroons' (aka straight blade swords). All very best regards, Jim |
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#7 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nothern Mexico
Posts: 458
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Fearn, I enjoy your comments, as always. ![]() |
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#8 | ||
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
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Hi Gonzalo
Quote:
Quote:
![]() Saludos Fernando. |
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#9 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 685
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Hi Folks,
A wonderful and most informative thread. Thank you all for your inputs. Without being a linguist, I can fairly confidently say that languages rely to a very considerable degree on prevailing conventions. And these conventions impart the meaning to many words used. For example, `Cool' today can have a very different meaning than say a hundred years ago. Often, in a given era, certain terms were used synonymously with other terms, which in a later era were sharply differentiated - The nomenclature of Gaucho knives immediately springs to mind, as do ancient fencing terms. It is the researcher's task to unravel what a particular term meant then and today. Failure to do so simply leads to confusion and incorrect interpretations. Cheers Chris |
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#10 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nipmuc USA
Posts: 523
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![]() Cheers Hotspur; I will admit to once linking to a Johhny Cash mariachi intro wav file when regarding Mexican blades |
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#11 | |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,459
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Well noted Glen! Another thread in 'death throes' with the discussion of the meaning of the word sabre? What a shock! LOL! ![]() I somewhat understand the note by Frank on links, the daily barrage of spam around has truly gotten people paranoid.....just a knee jerk thing. However the staff here work incredibly hard at keeping this flak under control....and the right level of kevlar around the forum. ..old habits die hard though. It really is amazing some stuff that comes up in searches ......the Wiki link was interesting, and I did click on it, though admit I felt a little of the same apprehension as it is against my grain....I only did it cuz I know you Glen ![]() Maybe a few words on what the link is would be gooder ![]() All the best, Jim P.S. Loved the Mariachi analogy in the search on Mexican blades....gotta admit it is perfectly placed theme music!! But then there was my experience with hard rock, stiff drink and a tulwar.....uh, took out a ceiling fan..oops. |
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#12 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,247
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Hi Hotspur and Jim,
As I said, it's paranoia, not necessarily rational. Of course, one could consider that posting a description of the link is a politeness to the reader, who gets to decide whether it's worthwhile following the link or not. As for debating the origin of saber...well, we could debate whether the short ones are knives or swords, just to make the argument really messy. Best, F |
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#13 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,347
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' szabla word origin to cut ' ![]() |
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