Staining keris with Chinese warangan

harimauhk · 2nd July 2009, 07:24 AM

Here are some pictures of the keris and the tumbuk lada. Hopefully this one isn't a keris-like object like the Batak souvenir I picked up...

David · 2nd July 2009, 02:30 PM

Well first of all the obvious...you shouldn't have done that.

Keris rarely have a "cutting edge". It is a stabbing weapon, not a slasher. Sharpen a keris in this way just isn't done.
I think that you might want to try to get a hold of some lab grade arsenic trioxide if you can find it. I think you will get better results. Also, how did you prep the blade before applying the warangan? Did you clean the whole blade back to "white" before proceeding?
I doubt that your keris is all nickel for many reasons, but mostly because you report that it was once black so iron must be present.

harimauhk · 2nd July 2009, 03:09 PM

Hi David, and thanks for the response. Yes, I know you're never supposed to sharpen a keris, but some do have sharp edges, right? I keep mine by the door in a blawong and I wanted to know it would actually be usable if I ever had to pick it up, since I'm not really interested in weapons that can't be used in real life.

The lab grade As2O3 might be a little harder to locate than realgar, but I'll see what I can do. Maybe I should just get it restained on my next trip to Indonesia--It's only US $200 roundtrip from Hong Kong on Garuda.

I thoroughly cleaned the blade with lime juice and detergent before drying it thoroughly with a hair dryer, and it was a clear white except for a few patches which would not give up the stain on them (and I can't figure out why). Is it possible this keris was stained with something else besides warangan? The seller got back to me and said it was done with 'black warangan,' which doesn't tell me much. It is possible to turn nickel black with other substances and even heat treating, correct? The ganja does appear to have been made in a sandwich so I'm guessing the wilah is too...

BTW, any comments on the keris guys?

I believe it is pamur tiban, but I'm probably wrong...I'm such a newbie to the world of keris, but I'm learning a lot from reading threads here.

harimauhk · 2nd July 2009, 03:22 PM

Here's what it looked like new:

David · 2nd July 2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk

Hi David, and thanks for the response. Yes, I know you're never supposed to sharpen a keris, but some do have sharp edges, right? I keep mine by the door in a blawong and I wanted to know it would actually be usable if I ever had to pick it up, since I'm not really interested in weapons that can't be used in real life.

I have never handled a Jawa keris that was edge sharp. I do have one Bali keris that is somewhat edge sharp, but hardly razor sharp. Again, keris, even ones that are used for fighting, are stabbing weapons. You don't slash with the edges so there is no need for it to be sharp there. If used properly i think that your keris could, indeed, be used effectively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk

The lab grade As2O3 might be a little harder to locate than realgar, but I'll see what I can do. Maybe I should just get it restained on my next trip to Indonesia--It's only US $200 roundtrip from Hong Kong on Garuda.

I am envious of your close location. Given that it would prbably be easier to have it done by a professional and the job will no doubt look better. Staining keris is never easy even under the best of circumstances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk

I thoroughly cleaned the blade with lime juice and detergent before drying it thoroughly with a hair dryer, and it was a clear white except for a few patches which would not give up the stain on them (and I can't figure out why). Is it possible this keris was stained with something else besides warangan? The seller got back to me and said it was done with 'black warangan,' which doesn't tell me much. It is possible to turn nickel black with other substances and even heat treating, correct? The ganja does appear to have been made in a sandwich so I'm guessing the wilah is too...

I would soak it in pineapple juice for a few days. Also, you can work the blade with some #0000 steel wool to help remove any residual stain. I doubt it was stained with anything other than warangan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk

BTW, any comments on the keris guys?

I believe it is pamur tiban, but I'm probably wrong...I'm such a newbie to the world of keris, but I'm learning a lot from reading threads here.

The keris is fairly recent (late 20th-early 21st C) 13 luk naga keris. The work isn't the worst i've seen, but it is far from quality work. I like the design of the pendok.

harimauhk · 3rd July 2009, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I have never handled a Jawa keris that was edge sharp. I do have one Bali keris that is somewhat edge sharp, but hardly razor sharp. Again, keris, even ones that are used for fighting, are stabbing weapons. You don't slash with the edges so there is no need for it to be sharp there. If used properly i think that your keris could, indeed, be used effectively.

Thanks again David! Yes, I know keris are used to stab, but I wanted to give myself a little edge, so to speak

I won't sharpen any of my others--I'll reserve that for the newer spring steel blades I've picked up (karambits badik, golok, pisau, etc).

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I am envious of your close location. Given that it would prbably be easier to have it done by a professional and the job will no doubt look better. Staining keris is never easy even under the best of circumstances.

I do feel fortunate living here. Indonesians are soon going to be the largest minority group in Hong Kong, and a (lady) friend of mine from Jakarta is moving here in a week. This keris was made in Surabaya, and I know the owner of the forge and he's invited me to come visit, so perhaps I'll head to Surabaya and then to Bali...

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I would soak it in pineapple juice for a few days. Also, you can work the blade with some #0000 steel wool to help remove any residual stain. I doubt it was stained with anything other than warangan.

As much as I want to get this keris looking right, taking steel wool to it is a little scary to me

This was the first keris I bought and it supposedly has octahedrite muonionalusta (meteorite) in the pamur, but I'm skeptical, even if I was issued with a 'certificate' for the meteorite used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

The keris is fairly recent (late 20th-early 21st C) 13 luk naga keris. The work isn't the worst i've seen, but it is far from quality work. I like the design of the pendok.

Thanks for the input! Yes, from what I've seen on here, this keris is far from being the most refined, and the naga theme seems to be extremely popular on new keris. I do like the pendok myself, and the sheath is cendana jawa, so it smells great.

David · 3rd July 2009, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk

As much as I want to get this keris looking right, taking steel wool to it is a little scary to me

This was the first keris I bought and it supposedly has octahedrite muonionalusta (meteorite) in the pamur, but I'm skeptical, even if I was issued with a 'certificate' for the meteorite used.

#0000 steel wool is very fine stuff and is not likely to scratch the surface of a keris blade. Truth be told, your blade could use a bit more finishing. It show quite a bite of file markings that would have been worked out of finer keris. I think you are right to be skeptical about the meteorite, but even if it was used the fine steel wool will not hurt it.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd July 2009, 06:14 AM

David, 0000 steel wool is really being a bit cautious. In Jawa we use coconut husk and pot cleaner called abu gosok, which is pretty coarse ashes. Here I use 00 steel wool and powder sink cleaner like Bon Ami, or Ajax.

It is important to allow the arsenic to settle before you apply the lime juice, and you only use very, very little juice, just sufficient to make the blade damp, certainly not wet. Then repetition again and again until the colour starts to come up, rinse off, dry, and repeat as many times as is necessary to darken the ferric material. Most people tend to make the blade too black when they are new at this game.

Rick · 2nd July 2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk

Hi David, and thanks for the response. Yes, I know you're never supposed to sharpen a keris, but some do have sharp edges, right? I keep mine by the door in a blawong and I wanted to know it would actually be usable if I ever had to pick it up, since I'm not really interested in weapons that can't be used in real life.

Often, repeated warangan treatments can make the blade edge quite jagged .
Your keris is new work most likely; not really meant for fighting ..
Get a new warangan job in Indo for the naga .

"Usable ?"
This would be more up your alley then .

harimauhk · 3rd July 2009, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Often, repeated warangan treatments can make the blade edge quite jagged .
Your keris is new work most likely; not really meant for fighting ..
Get a new warangan job in Indo for the naga .

"Usable ?"
This would be more up your alley then .

Hi Rick! Thanks for weighing in. Yes, I realize the jagged edge on keris comes from warangan. I have a rencong aceh with a jagged (and sharp) edge from warangan, which was a major selling point for me. It is one of the few rencong I've seen with pamur (not that I've seen that many).

That's a lovely keris. Bugis or Sumatran, right?

Rick · 3rd July 2009, 01:36 AM

Bugis, correct .
Welcome aboard ..

harimauhk · 3rd July 2009, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Bugis, correct .
Welcome aboard ..

Thanks Rick! I'm happy to be here!

2nd July 2009, 07:24 AM	#1
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Here are some pictures of the keris and the tumbuk lada. Hopefully this one isn't a keris-like object like the Batak souvenir I picked up... Attached Images

2nd July 2009, 03:22 PM	#4
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Here's what it looked like new: Attached Images

2nd July 2009, 02:30 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,220	Well first of all the obvious...you shouldn't have done that. Keris rarely have a "cutting edge". It is a stabbing weapon, not a slasher. Sharpen a keris in this way just isn't done. I think that you might want to try to get a hold of some lab grade arsenic trioxide if you can find it. I think you will get better results. Also, how did you prep the blade before applying the warangan? Did you clean the whole blade back to "white" before proceeding? I doubt that your keris is all nickel for many reasons, but mostly because you report that it was once black so iron must be present.

2nd July 2009, 03:09 PM	#3
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Hi David, and thanks for the response. Yes, I know you're never supposed to sharpen a keris, but some do have sharp edges, right? I keep mine by the door in a blawong and I wanted to know it would actually be usable if I ever had to pick it up, since I'm not really interested in weapons that can't be used in real life. The lab grade As2O3 might be a little harder to locate than realgar, but I'll see what I can do. Maybe I should just get it restained on my next trip to Indonesia--It's only US $200 roundtrip from Hong Kong on Garuda. I thoroughly cleaned the blade with lime juice and detergent before drying it thoroughly with a hair dryer, and it was a clear white except for a few patches which would not give up the stain on them (and I can't figure out why). Is it possible this keris was stained with something else besides warangan? The seller got back to me and said it was done with 'black warangan,' which doesn't tell me much. It is possible to turn nickel black with other substances and even heat treating, correct? The ganja does appear to have been made in a sandwich so I'm guessing the wilah is too... BTW, any comments on the keris guys? I believe it is pamur tiban, but I'm probably wrong...I'm such a newbie to the world of keris, but I'm learning a lot from reading threads here.

3rd July 2009, 06:14 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	David, 0000 steel wool is really being a bit cautious. In Jawa we use coconut husk and pot cleaner called abu gosok, which is pretty coarse ashes. Here I use 00 steel wool and powder sink cleaner like Bon Ami, or Ajax. It is important to allow the arsenic to settle before you apply the lime juice, and you only use very, very little juice, just sufficient to make the blade damp, certainly not wet. Then repetition again and again until the colour starts to come up, rinse off, dry, and repeat as many times as is necessary to darken the ferric material. Most people tend to make the blade too black when they are new at this game.

3rd July 2009, 01:36 AM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Bugis, correct . Welcome aboard ..