Naga keris - original?

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Henk

... but also the pesi is the proof of a recent keris.

If you ask Maduran people, what Maduran keris they like much -- then one almost certain answer would be "Kasa kerises"... They mean, kerises which were made by Empu Kasa, or at least have characteristics of Kasa's keris. For Sumenep people, they like Sumala or Panembahan Sumolo kerises...

IMHO, Kasa's characteristics mostly: "ngulit semangka" pamor with extreme layers (erik's keris has such pamor), and sturdy pesi (I post three of around five old Maduran kerises I have, with such sturdy pesi), and if keris with luks, Kasa's style usually have complete janggut-jenggot (above the sekar kacang) and complete greneng -- with ron dha nunut or double greneng...

Erik's keris has characteristics of what Maduran people say, Kasa's keris. Old. But the question is the proportion of the gandhik with naga relief. Not quite proportional with the size of the overall blade.


GANJAWULUNG

[Rick]

Yes, I would agree with that .

An old altered keris then ?

Or ... ??

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Rick

Yes, I would agree with that .

An old altered keris then ?

Or ... ??

Probably yes, Rick. An old altered keris. You may look at the "sudden hollow" behind the garuda mungkur of the "naga raja" head... Not so smooth hollow, unnatural. (Below are just for comparison, the proportion of naga relief. It is not an old naga, but the proportion is ok). The distance of the naga head at erik's keris, is too short to the upper part of ganja, or the base of keris. Please, this is only my humble opinion...

GANJAWULUNG

[David]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

. You may look at the "sudden hollow" behind the garuda mungkur of the "naga raja" head... Not so smooth hollow, unnatural. (Below are just for comparison, the proportion of naga relief. It is not an old naga, but the proportion is ok). The distance of the naga head at erik's keris, is too short to the upper part of ganja, or the base of keris.

Yes, but is this proper proportion which Erik's keris lacks to be found necessarily in a village made keris where the pandai might not be as skilled or knowledgeable.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by David

Yes, but is this proper proportion which Erik's keris lacks to be found necessarily in a village made keris where the pandai might not be as skilled or knowledgeable.

Dear David, I think sense of good proportion is universal language for every keris maker. It is not a matter of village or not-village pandai keris. And in the past, I think good empus were villagers too. Most javanese people in the past were villagers...

GANJAWULUNG

[David]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear David, I think sense of good proportion is universal language for every keris maker. It is not a matter of village or not-village pandai keris. And in the past, I think good empus were villagers too. Most javanese people in the past were villagers...

My dear Ganja, i was not implying that there have not been some very, very good village pandai. I have many examples of their fine work in my own collection. However it should also be clear from old examples that there have been many mediocre and even bad pandai making keris. I am afraid that i cannot agree that a good sense of proportion is a universal skill of ALL keris makers. There are just too many bad keris to be found to back that statement up.