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13th June 2009, 12:28 AM
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#1 |
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Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,339
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Such as this ?
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13th June 2009, 01:11 AM
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#2 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,015
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I'm not going to comment specifically on the blades pictured, but if we look at the pale pamor material in the pedang we can see little white specks.
When we find a lot of these in ferric material it is very probably caused by forging at low temperatures. Prof Jerzy Piaskowski of Poland conducted a number of analyses of this type of material and this was the conclusion to which he came. The effect can be quite impressive in a blade that has only plain steel and no contrasting pamor, it looks like little white clouds floating below the surface of the iron or steel, almost three dimensional. |
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15th June 2009, 05:57 AM
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 124
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Hello Amuk Murugul, Rick, Alan
Thank you all for your inputs. In an older thread (May 2008) I read that " ... the iron used is called `besi malela`that originates from beach sand" and " ... besi malela is the type of iron that had a lot of impurities ... and considered as less preferable choice in making keris". Very interesting indeed! Furthermore, I found a very interesting post by Empu Kumis (thread "What constitutes a `good` keris?", June 2001), describing "the melting of iron from ironsand". " ... These black sands are used in history by dayaks for traditional ironmaking also. The name of this sand is in Bali bias malalo and in Java pasir malelo like the besi malelo in the older literature of Java ... " " ... for using as material for kerisses its a real good iron." (Quote Empu Kumis) Fascinating: Keris iron made from beach sand! Heinz |
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15th June 2009, 10:07 AM
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#4 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
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CILACAP ironsand
Quote:
As long as I know (I hope Empu Kumis will respond it too), he had made some experiments with Pak Subandi and Boedhi Adhitya (Yogyakartan keris connoisseur) to make blocks or "iron" of Cilacap sands. Cilacap located in the southern coast of Central Jawa. Why did he choose Cilacap? I think Dietrich has a certain reason on this. He selected the Cilacap "iron sand" material with magnetic piece of iron (see picture below) and then melt the iron sand, before being forged in block forms (please correct the right English term) as you see in the picture below ... And I remember, Dietrich had shown me a newly made "wedung" with this kind of "iron sand" pamor couple of years ago, to prove his 'thesis' on "wesi malela".... I hope this info would help you GANJAWULUNG (Guangzhou June 15, 2009) Last edited by ganjawulung; 16th June 2009 at 12:27 AM. Reason: Mispelled word |
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15th June 2009, 10:27 PM
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 93
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Hi all, this ironsand is called satetsu in Japan and is used to smelt tamahagane (jewel metal) which is used to make Japanese swords from, its a very good iron ore, with very little sulphur or phosphorus content so makes for a real good steel, with less carbon and added meteorite it would make most excellent keris pamor, "washed" high carbon tamahagane would be ideal for the core (very hard and tough steel) Costs about £60 a kilo in Japan though.
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16th June 2009, 05:32 AM
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 124
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Hi Ganjawulung, hi Lemmythesmith
Many thanks for the info/pictures which I highly appreciate. I do learn a lot here. This is a really great forum with great members! Regards, Heinz |
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16th June 2009, 05:45 PM
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
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Iron stone
This is more picture of 'iron stones' that probably contained iron ore at Subandi's besalen in eastern Surakarta.
GANJAWULUNG (Guangzhou, June 16, 2009) |
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