Manual del Baratero - A Review

[tom hyle]

The idea of most dropped attacks is that they are done suddenly, taking the opponant by surprise and going under his guard by putting you suddenly below where he thinks you are. There are no magic bullets in hand to hand combat; instantaneity of deadliness is about 90% of it (and I'm leaving asid massed combat, which we aren't discussing and where grouping and communication are probably #1) and is much more important than skill, technique, etc. It's all about speed and anticipation (ESP helps). In other words, this is a trick. The more any such is seen, taught, practiced, and practiced against, the less use it becomes, of course. I remember in SCA heavy weapons combat a trick that only works on a hard smooth floor (or sometimes grass under the right conditions, but not so reliably.....) if you have hard, well-padded knee armour; you charge the opponant head-on, seeming to bull in like an unskilled fool, but at the last instant drop to your knees, sliding in beneath his guard, and strike. It is extremely effective against most people who haven't seen it, because it is unexpected and shifts the attack to a direction from which no attack was thought possible. the technique discussed is rather similar. The idea of the instant kill is a weakness of many sport/training fighting methods. It may be neccessary to them, but it is important for real fighters to train in such things as slide up on your knees then roll away and back to your feet, etc. The move discussed here seems eminently liable to such a recovery that uses gravity/momentum to continue the movement into a roll to the side. Many moves that "kill" an opponant in sport/practice leave you open should he, as we actual animals tend to do, rudely refrain from dying instantly and quietly. I also note a similarity to Spainish bullfighting, though, and to the idea of the perfect thrust, and the perfect understanding and control of the bull, and wherein the armpit of the killer ends up and even comes to rest directly before the point of the weapon of the victim as a very deliberate display that is considered of surpassing meaning and beauty by the afficionadi.
It is sometimes important to remember, too, in these matters, that though such a thing as fear of Death may seem a constant it is actually a cultural construct in some degree, and many cultures have not shared it in anything like the degree it is seen in modern/industrial culture. I recently heard a great saying; I can't remember it precisely, but along the lines of "When we learn to die, then we are able to live free." Killing the enemy, living and dying honorably/morally, and even the aesthetic beauty of movements and situations can all exceed the desire to continue living within traditional combat.
A further note on the soft pass (? low pass?) is that it not only puts you lower than expected, but "ups" your reach, allowing you to strike when the opponant thought he was out of range. There is a very similar extension thrust with a longspear (pike) that can be very effective. The best, most practiced, and stretchiest spearmen can get quite a notable range boost from it.
I'll also add that many fighting styles teach one how to fight from the ground; some even favour it, and styles that lack this typically find it hard to counter, mistaking the ground for a position of weakness; thinking only the feet can successfully interface with it or something; another limitting paradigm whose.....limitations can really come out in a fight.

[Chris Evans]

Hi,

Tom,

Fair comment - You draw attention to something that should be a mandatory recitation by all students of martial arts, be it Eastern or Western; Namely, that even the most seemingly devastating attack may not be instantly disabling, giving ample opportunity to the opponent to counter-strike. In the long history of dueling, there have been numerous examples of someone scoring a hit, thinking that the fight was over, only to receive an unexpected counter hit with grievous consequences.

Knives lacking a reach advantage bring both parties extremely close and expose the wielder to counter hits far more than swords do; This has to be kept in mind when choosing tactics.

Another point (no pun intended) is that the PS is infrequently performed with modern fencing swords, because they move too fast, yet it is worth remembering that knives are faster again, able to change direction even more quickly.


Frank,

Many of the 6"-9" bladed navajas that had a lock were capable weapons, but only once they were opened. Most were slow and clumsy in this respect, but there were a few notable exceptions. I have an old 10" bladed navaja, made in the French manner with a "teat" lock (as still found on Italian stilettos) the massive blade of which can be flung open like any modern tactical folder (see picture). It is very weak at the hinge but it can be deployed mighty fast - A shorter bladed version would have been rather formidable. Of course, for this very reason, it would have been banned in most Spanish jurisdictions, much in the manner that automatic switchblades tend to attract the full wrath of the law in modern times.

Much more research is needed before we can say with certainty just how common was the violent usage of navajas. There is some rather compelling evidence in Forton's works that a most attacks were committed with weapons other than navajas. Another factor to keep in mind is that in the old days, lacking forensic capabilities, the authorities could not easily disprove a confession in which the guilty party admitted to having carved up someone with a navaja (more or less legal) as opposed to the real weapon used having been a dagger or knife (highly illegal), rapidly drawn from concealment.

Personally, after having examined quite a number of antiques, I am of the opinion that actual fighting with navajas must have been far less frequent than alleged these days and when it did occur, it was in ritualized dueling that seldom went the distance and during which only easily parried sweeping cuts were being traded (most navajas did not have a lock and this made the more lethal thrust very risky).

Cheers
Chris

[Frank]

Chris,

In Fortons Navaja Antigua page 258 there is a navaja described as VIROLA GIRATORIA. My Spanish helper has not been able to translatte this for me. Does not seem to have a lock of any kind. What is this navaja.

Why has this book not ben translated? I find it very frustrating and hard to understand. Such a good book full of info and nobody has bothered with it. Cant believe it.

Best Wishes
Frank

[Chris Evans]

Hi Frank,

1. "Virola Giratoria" means a navaja fitted with a rotating bolster lock. The Spaniards in their search for a locking mechanism tried various solutions to the problem and this was one of them.

It consisted of a sheet-metal ferrule that rotated atop the bolster blocking the closure of the blade. It was easy to make and very secure, but was rather slow to open and tended to fall apart. Modern knives that use this type of lock are the French Opinel and the US Cold Steel Twistmaster.

You can see both these knives here:

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/kn...nel_large.html


2. Re Translation of Forton's Works: To date, as far as the English speaking world is concerned, there has been little serious interest in the navaja. The recent spate of interest seems to have came mainly from martial artists - Serious collectors and historians of edged weapons do not appear to be all that interested and in any event, such potential readers are not numerous. Maybe a market survey would contradict this, but even such surveys cost a lot.

A translation of La Navaja Espanola Antigua with its 490 pages, would be a huge task, requiring at least a year's full time work. You can chalk that up as at least $US60,000 and then there are also the publishing costs. To invest that kind of time and money, one would have to be sure of selling a lot of copies.

Perhaps a much more abridged work would have a better chance, but by necessity it would have to be a superficial coverage of the subject.

So, don't hold your breath waiting for a translation.

Cheers
Chris

[Frank]

Chris

Thanks for those answers.

So you don't think we'll ever get a translation of Forton. Thats a pity. Any other Spanish works worth translating?

I also noticed that in theMejores Piezas de Colecsion there are many navajas of other nationalities including India. Any coments?

Best Wishes
Frank

[Chris Evans]

Hi Frank,

1. It is not possible to write seriously on the navaja without drawing heavily on the work of Forton. As far as I am aware, there is only one other work worth considering, that of Arturo Sanchez De Vivar, titled La Navaja Clasica. It is a simple and concise work that also drew heavily on Forton and it was written to address mainly the needs of collectors. At least in Spanish, I consider it overshadowed by Forton's Las Mejores Piezas de Colecsion. May be worth translating, but with the same effort a more comprehensive book could be written. However even such a modest work would be a financial risk in terms of publishing costs, especially that of photography which would require going to Spain and hiring a local photographer.

2. The Spaniards claim that they invented the navaja and others copied its design. This may or may not be true, but remarkably similar clasp knives were in use in other parts of Europe, mostly in France and Italy and generally of significantly better quality.

Here is a superb Italian navaja:

http://www.knivescollection.com/cata...d_coltello=631

It was probably an early 19th century exhibition piece, with a 44cm (17") blade that was provided with a sheath, presumably so that it could be carried in the open position if the owner so desired and if the jurisdiction's law permitted it though the long handle would have made this very uncomfortable.

I strongly suspect that the Spaniards were not the only ones to have legislated against fixed blade knives, for why else would the Italians and the French, just to mention two , bothered with inferior (to a fixed blade) folders? That these nations also passed restrictive legislation of some sorts is evidenced by the old and curious practice of selling navajas with the blade's tip sporting a blunt appendage which the owner ground off to end up with the desired sharp point; This was done to circumvent the prohibition of selling pointed clasp knives. The attached phot is that of such an Italian navaja that never saw use and was sold some time ago by the internet firm (knivescollection) given above.

It is my opinion that to make a truly comprehensive study of the navaja one would have to broaden the scope of inquiry so as to include other European nations, besides Spain; However, linguistically this would require an unusually gifted researcher who is capable of looking through old police records and similar archival documents written in a number of different languages. This is why we cannot find anything worth reading in English on European knives and their usage.

As you rightly mention, there were navajas made even as afar as India, though that was around 1900. The basic design lending itself to being manufactured in low tech workshops.

Cheers
Chris

[Frank]

Chris,

I am thinking of getting a real navaja. I am tosing up between a replica or a real antique. Which do you reccomend wrom which dealer. The prices seem fairly much the same.

Best wishes
Frank

[dennee]

Terrific and informative thread!

The slowness of opening and common lack of lock would certainly seem to make the navaja inferior for some purposes. But they also made them acceptable to carry. For an attacker, the slowness of the opening is less of a problem than to a defender. And, as was mentioned above, lack of a lock probably dictated more slashing.

Consider a common weapon in American slums at the end of the nineteenth century--the straight razor. Portable, concealable, useful for other purposes, not inherently illegal, no lock, no thrusting capability, but a quicker open.

[Chris Evans]

Hi dennee,

You are absolutely right about locks, or rather their absence on the great majority of navajas.

The straight razor was in its heyday a much favoured weapon with all kinds of people all over the word, though I suspect that its power to intimidate far exceeded its potential as a weapon. Some years ago, I remember seeing a Brazilian film, the name of which now escapes me. Actually, it was more like a musical and set in the 1940s, in which a corrupt police officer fights a ritualized duel with razors with a slum hustler with whom he was in a racket and later fell out. They used Caoperia techniques and the name of the game was to "mark" the face of the opponent . The fight choreography wasn't terribly convincing, but it gave us some idea. And by the way, the cop lost and had a neat set of little vertical scars to show for his troubles, all adroitely planted there by his opponent.

Cheers
Chris