snake or frigate bird

Nick Wardigo · 12th May 2009, 01:35 PM

Attaching an image of the hood of a Spectacled Cobra.

josh stout · 12th May 2009, 06:07 PM

Thanks Nick, that is the sort of thing I was thinking of, but the spectacled cobra and the monocled cobra are not quite the same as what is on the stick, they just make me think that there may be a cobra with the right pattern. I also wonder what the pattern would look like when the hood is down. Perhaps it would be more like the stick pattern.

I have heard many stories of native peoples who cannot identify a bird from picture, or in some cases even dead, but they can recognize it high in the trees from the rustle. I suspect that many times animals are difficult for us to ID from ethnographc depictions because what is emphasized is different from what we see in pictures. For example, there may not have been enough wood for the hood of a cobra, so the carver put the cobra mark on, but depicted the mark as it would be when the hood is down. Something obvious to any local can be mystifying to us.
Josh

Tim Simmons · 12th May 2009, 06:24 PM

Very interesting. I had hoped to have it today, perhaps tomorrow. From these pictures it is difficult to see what has made the mark on the back of the head. I feel if you are trying to show other people a cobra, it cannot be achieved with showing the hood. Perhaps it is the narrow neck ?mark cobra

but that is just being silly. I feel pretty sure it is not Asian or African. I cannot wait to get my hands on it, if only to see what material makes the eyes. If it all turns out to be rubbish well all I lost is about two double burgers and ordinary fries.

fearn · 12th May 2009, 06:53 PM

Just to get this conversation going in an extremely biological direction, I'd like to note that the cobra family (elapidae) is extremely common in the Australasian region, and includes such fun snakes as death adders and taipans.

Some of them look like cobras, some do not. Bottom line is that the elapids are widespread through Africa, Asia, Australia, and the central islands of Melanesia, so a cobra-like mark on a snake cane doesn't preclude it from coming from Melanesia.

My 0.00002 kina,

F

David · 12th May 2009, 07:54 PM

Tim, i think it is clear to see that regardless of what the eyes are made of or the origin of this staff, it isn't really possible that it is "rubbish". It's a fine folk art staff no matter how you look at it.
I also think that with folk art we can't get too fussy over anatomical correctness. Part of what makes it folk art. I think that in all probability it was intended to be a snake, but nailing it down to the exact species from the carved features is not very likely. No real snake looks like this.

Tim Simmons · 13th May 2009, 01:59 PM

Its here but I do not know what to make of it. I fear it is a tourist thing. Thats three duds in a row

I just keep the Fiji staff in mind and keep trying.

David · 13th May 2009, 10:00 PM

Tim, what about this staff gives you the feeling that it is a tourist thing? Looks like good folk art to me. what were you expecting or hoping for that isn't there when the staff is in hand?

12th May 2009, 01:35 PM	#1
Nick Wardigo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 54	Attaching an image of the hood of a Spectacled Cobra. Attached Images

12th May 2009, 06:24 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Very interesting. I had hoped to have it today, perhaps tomorrow. From these pictures it is difficult to see what has made the mark on the back of the head. I feel if you are trying to show other people a cobra, it cannot be achieved with showing the hood. Perhaps it is the narrow neck ?mark cobra but that is just being silly. I feel pretty sure it is not Asian or African. I cannot wait to get my hands on it, if only to see what material makes the eyes. If it all turns out to be rubbish well all I lost is about two double burgers and ordinary fries. Attached Images

12th May 2009, 06:07 PM	#2
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Thanks Nick, that is the sort of thing I was thinking of, but the spectacled cobra and the monocled cobra are not quite the same as what is on the stick, they just make me think that there may be a cobra with the right pattern. I also wonder what the pattern would look like when the hood is down. Perhaps it would be more like the stick pattern. I have heard many stories of native peoples who cannot identify a bird from picture, or in some cases even dead, but they can recognize it high in the trees from the rustle. I suspect that many times animals are difficult for us to ID from ethnographc depictions because what is emphasized is different from what we see in pictures. For example, there may not have been enough wood for the hood of a cobra, so the carver put the cobra mark on, but depicted the mark as it would be when the hood is down. Something obvious to any local can be mystifying to us. Josh

12th May 2009, 06:53 PM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Just to get this conversation going in an extremely biological direction, I'd like to note that the cobra family (elapidae) is extremely common in the Australasian region, and includes such fun snakes as death adders and taipans. Some of them look like cobras, some do not. Bottom line is that the elapids are widespread through Africa, Asia, Australia, and the central islands of Melanesia, so a cobra-like mark on a snake cane doesn't preclude it from coming from Melanesia. My 0.00002 kina, F

12th May 2009, 07:54 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Tim, i think it is clear to see that regardless of what the eyes are made of or the origin of this staff, it isn't really possible that it is "rubbish". It's a fine folk art staff no matter how you look at it. I also think that with folk art we can't get too fussy over anatomical correctness. Part of what makes it folk art. I think that in all probability it was intended to be a snake, but nailing it down to the exact species from the carved features is not very likely. No real snake looks like this.

13th May 2009, 01:59 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Its here but I do not know what to make of it. I fear it is a tourist thing. Thats three duds in a row I just keep the Fiji staff in mind and keep trying.

13th May 2009, 10:00 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Tim, what about this staff gives you the feeling that it is a tourist thing? Looks like good folk art to me. what were you expecting or hoping for that isn't there when the staff is in hand?