Pakem and Keris

Rick · 26th April 2009, 11:46 PM

Thanks Alan,
At what point in time did the keris become court art ?

A. G. Maisey · 27th April 2009, 02:02 AM

I do not know Rick. But I can guess.

We know that during the Kartasura period there was a resurgence of Javanese national pride, we also know that by the early 19th century the keris in Jawa had become not much more than an item of dress. During the 19th century and through into the early 20th century Javanese pride was taking a beating from the extremes of Dutch administration.

In an attempt to regain some national pride it seems that Javanese attention became more focussed on those things over which the Javanese themselves had control, and in which the Dutch overlords could not interfere, or perhaps did not want to interfere.

Thus "Javaneseness" found itself being expressed in those things that were for the most part outside the understanding of the foriegners.

Those things that prior to the Javanese War had only a touch of mysticism associated with them were elevated to a mystic stature that was out of reach of the foriegners, even though a couple of hundred years earlier, the superstition and belief in magic that was harboured by the Dutch at that time very probably contributed to the Javanese attitude to mysticism and superstition.

By the 19th century the Dutch had moved forward from their 17th century beliefs and superstitions, but the social conditions in Jawa had seen an intensification of these beliefs amongst the Javanese, in part, as a balance to the oppression of the Dutch.

So, by the mid 19th century the keris in Jawa was well and truly a magical object, as Europeans understood magic, whereas previously it had been a power object as that was understood within the framework of traditional Javanese society.

We can find examples of what we now refer to as "keris art" in keris that date to the 17th century , and prior to this, however, I doubt that at that time we were looking at an art form , but rather at art being used to ornament an object that still had a number of practical uses.

My own feeling is that the keris was elevated to a defined art form in the courts of Jawa as a part of that response of the Javanese rulers to Dutch overlordship. To put that within a time-frame, perhaps mid-19th century forward. It certainly was in full blossom by the PBX era---roughly 1890 to 1940.

Bear in mind, this is opinion only.

Rick · 27th April 2009, 02:49 AM

Thanks Alan, sometimes all we have to go by is opinion .

David · 27th April 2009, 07:24 PM

Thanks for you opinion on this subject Alan. As Rick points out sometimes opinions are the best we have to go on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

So, by the mid 19th century the keris in Jawa was well and truly a magical object, as Europeans understood magic, whereas previously it had been a power object as that was understood within the framework of traditional Javanese society.

Could you go into this difference a bit further Alan. I think it might be helpful to more definitively establish what we mean by "magical object" vs. "power object".

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

We can find examples of what we now refer to as "keris art" in keris that date to the 17th century , and prior to this, however, I doubt that at that time we were looking at an art form , but rather at art being used to ornament an object that still had a number of practical uses.

So practical purposes would be, of course, as a physical weapon and on a royal level as a way to hold, assign and distribute power. Can we extend this list further?

A. G. Maisey · 28th April 2009, 04:35 AM

By "power object" I mean something that is related to a power, or a level of power, within a unit of human organization, thus something which symbolizes, represents or indicates a phenomenon external to the object itself.

By "magical object" I mean something that is believed to be related to occurrences that are not easy to explain by conventional reasoning, thus something which contains within itself the ability to cause or contribute to phenomenon in either a direct or an indirect way.

The primary practical purpose of a keris in the Jawa of 14th to 17th centuries appears to have been as the symbol of the masculine; there are repeated references to this in old inscriptions and literature. To extend the list past this we need to consider time and place. In my original post I was thinking in terms of Mataram and Majapahit, but to produce a comprehensive accounting of all the possible purposes and functions of the keris we need to extend the time frame from its first appearance up until the present day.

The door is open:- who wishes to enter?

Jussi M. · 28th April 2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The door is open:- who wishes to enter?

I am game.

David · 28th April 2009, 04:54 PM

So what about legends surrounding the keris Taming Sari and Hang Tuah. I believe this story is supposed to take place in the 15th century. This is a keris which i would say was supposed to be embued with "magickal" properties.
So was this legend thought up thought up much later or is it an early example of viewing the keris as a "magical object".

A. G. Maisey · 29th April 2009, 01:00 AM

The taming sari legend is Malay, I'm talking Jawa.

A legend.

Do we know the earliest version of this legend?

Yes, it refers to events which supposedly took place in the 15th century, but when did the legend arise? Do we know when it first appeared? Do we know the original version? Do we know how it developed? Any inscribed plates, stone inscriptions, lontars?

I am not very well versed in Malay folk beliefs, but my bet is that the taming sari legend probably came into being around the beginning of the 19th century, maybe even later.

Quite frankly, I would prefer to disregard this type of discussion. I do not find it very enlightening , nor productive.

Jussi M. · 29th April 2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

By "power object" I mean something that is related to a power, or a level of power, within a unit of human organization, thus something which symbolizes, represents or indicates a phenomenon external to the object itself.

Mr. Maisey - above you are referring to the keris as an object that bears or symbolizes powers which are external to the keris itself. As I have understood it the keris is mostly a personal item, yet you are referring it also as a "totem" item tied to a group of people or an organization that unites them.

Could you please tell what kinds of powers in your opinion can the Javanese keris symbolize or represent and what roles does it bear when looked upon from this perspective either from the viewpoint of the man in possession of the keris or the society in which he lives in? You may choose the period of time in which your answer is based upon freely.

Thanks,

J.

A. G. Maisey · 30th April 2009, 12:09 AM

David, what I mean by this "this type of discussion" is the mixing of legend and myth with historical relativity.

Legend and myth are by their very nature flexible entities:- they can and do change generationally, thus the legend that our grandparents heard is very likely different in some respects to the one we read when we throw the question into google. When these differences extend over long periods of time, and are additionally encapsulated within an oral tradition, their value for historical reference is somewhat more than doubtful.

The court babads of Jawa are often confused with legend by some people, and with history by other people, and in fact, seem to be a mix of both, but for the researcher, the big advantage with the babads is that they are written, and can--- to a degree--- be taken back to a point of origin, permitting analysis. We cannot do this with a legend or myth, or other folk tale.

As to affixing a point in time for the development of the keris as a magical object, this would be a good topic for serious research, as I do not believe that this specific topic has ever been seriously tackled. We can get some sort of an idea of this from the old literature. In early Javanese literature the keris seems to be represented as a power object, and with some talismanic properties, but it does not seem to be represented as a "fly through the air, find its own way home" object. My own gut feeling is that this pure magical character of the keris probably did not take hold until well into the 19th century. It may have had a begining during Kartasura---very big "may"--- but I really think that in Jawa it probably did not become "magic" until "Javaneseness" increased during the 19th century in a reaction to Dutch oppression.As I said:- green field for a serious researcher:- I believe that this is something that might be able to be pretty well nailed down.

Jussi, the keris can fulfil a number of roles; it is not just a single thing with a single character, and whatever characters it has can change over time. In early Jawa---C 14th century---- it was referred to as "the symbol of a man". Undoubtedly it was, and remains so, but it was also a weapon. In the hands of a waterfront thug, how much of a symbol was it? In the hands of a palace courtier, how much of a weapon was it?

By the early 19th century in Jawa the keris had become pretty much an item of dress. It was still occasionally used as a weapon, but anybody who could afford to would carry a keris as a part of formal dress.

In my "Naga" paper I looked at the power associated with the keris, and of course here we are talking of the pusaka keris, both royal and of a clan. Briefly it is the power to bond present custodian with past custodians and with the clan members of the present generation.A clan nexus if you will.

In the context of royal gift to a representative of the royal authority, it binds the king--- God's representative on earth--- to the minor ruler or governor, and the governed populace to the governor, and thus to the ruler. The ruler represents God, God is the cosmos, thus it bonds the lowliest subject to God. A bonding agent, thus a power object, and in a different dimension , representative of the Naga Basuki, and perhaps even holding the essence of the Naga Basuki.

The primary power of the keris is its binding character. Relate this to its acknowledged symbolic status as the symbol of masculinity. It is not difficult to understand why the keris became such a power object in old Jawa.

As Javanese society developed and absorbed differing influences, the original concepts associated with the keris mutated from the select knowledge held by the keris smiths and the religious leaders into folk beliefs. These folk beliefs have now replaced the original beliefs associated with the keris. Nothing strange about this:- time changes all things.

I don't think this is the place to produce a list of all the possibilities in respect of the power concept, nor the magic concept, but working from what I have written above, it is possible to find all of these answers in already published works.

David · 30th April 2009, 04:12 AM

Sorry if i was not clear enough Alan. I have no intention of leading this conversation it a jumbled mix of myth and legend with historical relativity. We are in complete agreement here. It may well be true that we might never be able to establish when this legend as we know it today took hold. I am not aware of any writings from the times that might help to nail this down, but i also do not know that such evidence does not exist. So i was just poising the question. Maybe someone else on this forum might have better knowledge as to when this legend was first written down.

26th April 2009, 11:46 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Thanks Alan, At what point in time did the keris become court art ?

27th April 2009, 02:02 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	I do not know Rick. But I can guess. We know that during the Kartasura period there was a resurgence of Javanese national pride, we also know that by the early 19th century the keris in Jawa had become not much more than an item of dress. During the 19th century and through into the early 20th century Javanese pride was taking a beating from the extremes of Dutch administration. In an attempt to regain some national pride it seems that Javanese attention became more focussed on those things over which the Javanese themselves had control, and in which the Dutch overlords could not interfere, or perhaps did not want to interfere. Thus "Javaneseness" found itself being expressed in those things that were for the most part outside the understanding of the foriegners. Those things that prior to the Javanese War had only a touch of mysticism associated with them were elevated to a mystic stature that was out of reach of the foriegners, even though a couple of hundred years earlier, the superstition and belief in magic that was harboured by the Dutch at that time very probably contributed to the Javanese attitude to mysticism and superstition. By the 19th century the Dutch had moved forward from their 17th century beliefs and superstitions, but the social conditions in Jawa had seen an intensification of these beliefs amongst the Javanese, in part, as a balance to the oppression of the Dutch. So, by the mid 19th century the keris in Jawa was well and truly a magical object, as Europeans understood magic, whereas previously it had been a power object as that was understood within the framework of traditional Javanese society. We can find examples of what we now refer to as "keris art" in keris that date to the 17th century , and prior to this, however, I doubt that at that time we were looking at an art form , but rather at art being used to ornament an object that still had a number of practical uses. My own feeling is that the keris was elevated to a defined art form in the courts of Jawa as a part of that response of the Javanese rulers to Dutch overlordship. To put that within a time-frame, perhaps mid-19th century forward. It certainly was in full blossom by the PBX era---roughly 1890 to 1940. Bear in mind, this is opinion only.

27th April 2009, 02:49 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Thanks Alan, sometimes all we have to go by is opinion .

28th April 2009, 04:35 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	By "power object" I mean something that is related to a power, or a level of power, within a unit of human organization, thus something which symbolizes, represents or indicates a phenomenon external to the object itself. By "magical object" I mean something that is believed to be related to occurrences that are not easy to explain by conventional reasoning, thus something which contains within itself the ability to cause or contribute to phenomenon in either a direct or an indirect way. The primary practical purpose of a keris in the Jawa of 14th to 17th centuries appears to have been as the symbol of the masculine; there are repeated references to this in old inscriptions and literature. To extend the list past this we need to consider time and place. In my original post I was thinking in terms of Mataram and Majapahit, but to produce a comprehensive accounting of all the possible purposes and functions of the keris we need to extend the time frame from its first appearance up until the present day. The door is open:- who wishes to enter?

28th April 2009, 04:54 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	So what about legends surrounding the keris Taming Sari and Hang Tuah. I believe this story is supposed to take place in the 15th century. This is a keris which i would say was supposed to be embued with "magickal" properties. So was this legend thought up thought up much later or is it an early example of viewing the keris as a "magical object".

29th April 2009, 01:00 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	The taming sari legend is Malay, I'm talking Jawa. A legend. Do we know the earliest version of this legend? Yes, it refers to events which supposedly took place in the 15th century, but when did the legend arise? Do we know when it first appeared? Do we know the original version? Do we know how it developed? Any inscribed plates, stone inscriptions, lontars? I am not very well versed in Malay folk beliefs, but my bet is that the taming sari legend probably came into being around the beginning of the 19th century, maybe even later. Quite frankly, I would prefer to disregard this type of discussion. I do not find it very enlightening , nor productive.

30th April 2009, 12:09 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	David, what I mean by this "this type of discussion" is the mixing of legend and myth with historical relativity. Legend and myth are by their very nature flexible entities:- they can and do change generationally, thus the legend that our grandparents heard is very likely different in some respects to the one we read when we throw the question into google. When these differences extend over long periods of time, and are additionally encapsulated within an oral tradition, their value for historical reference is somewhat more than doubtful. The court babads of Jawa are often confused with legend by some people, and with history by other people, and in fact, seem to be a mix of both, but for the researcher, the big advantage with the babads is that they are written, and can--- to a degree--- be taken back to a point of origin, permitting analysis. We cannot do this with a legend or myth, or other folk tale. As to affixing a point in time for the development of the keris as a magical object, this would be a good topic for serious research, as I do not believe that this specific topic has ever been seriously tackled. We can get some sort of an idea of this from the old literature. In early Javanese literature the keris seems to be represented as a power object, and with some talismanic properties, but it does not seem to be represented as a "fly through the air, find its own way home" object. My own gut feeling is that this pure magical character of the keris probably did not take hold until well into the 19th century. It may have had a begining during Kartasura---very big "may"--- but I really think that in Jawa it probably did not become "magic" until "Javaneseness" increased during the 19th century in a reaction to Dutch oppression.As I said:- green field for a serious researcher:- I believe that this is something that might be able to be pretty well nailed down. Jussi, the keris can fulfil a number of roles; it is not just a single thing with a single character, and whatever characters it has can change over time. In early Jawa---C 14th century---- it was referred to as "the symbol of a man". Undoubtedly it was, and remains so, but it was also a weapon. In the hands of a waterfront thug, how much of a symbol was it? In the hands of a palace courtier, how much of a weapon was it? By the early 19th century in Jawa the keris had become pretty much an item of dress. It was still occasionally used as a weapon, but anybody who could afford to would carry a keris as a part of formal dress. In my "Naga" paper I looked at the power associated with the keris, and of course here we are talking of the pusaka keris, both royal and of a clan. Briefly it is the power to bond present custodian with past custodians and with the clan members of the present generation.A clan nexus if you will. In the context of royal gift to a representative of the royal authority, it binds the king--- God's representative on earth--- to the minor ruler or governor, and the governed populace to the governor, and thus to the ruler. The ruler represents God, God is the cosmos, thus it bonds the lowliest subject to God. A bonding agent, thus a power object, and in a different dimension , representative of the Naga Basuki, and perhaps even holding the essence of the Naga Basuki. The primary power of the keris is its binding character. Relate this to its acknowledged symbolic status as the symbol of masculinity. It is not difficult to understand why the keris became such a power object in old Jawa. As Javanese society developed and absorbed differing influences, the original concepts associated with the keris mutated from the select knowledge held by the keris smiths and the religious leaders into folk beliefs. These folk beliefs have now replaced the original beliefs associated with the keris. Nothing strange about this:- time changes all things. I don't think this is the place to produce a list of all the possibilities in respect of the power concept, nor the magic concept, but working from what I have written above, it is possible to find all of these answers in already published works.

30th April 2009, 04:12 AM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Sorry if i was not clear enough Alan. I have no intention of leading this conversation it a jumbled mix of myth and legend with historical relativity. We are in complete agreement here. It may well be true that we might never be able to establish when this legend as we know it today took hold. I am not aware of any writings from the times that might help to nail this down, but i also do not know that such evidence does not exist. So i was just poising the question. Maybe someone else on this forum might have better knowledge as to when this legend was first written down.