Mid to Late 16th Century Patrons for Paper Cartridges

[Pukka Bundook]

Ah! Thank you Michael.
That Does make a difference!!

Probably wadding then as you alrady stated. Would be much easier to pluck out a small wad of it, than if it were in long strands.

Thanks again for the photos!

R.

[Matchlock]

Hello Richard,

Interesting enough, I sometimes extracted wadding plugs and felt plugs out of some loaded smoothbore flintlock barrels over the decades. They were placed on top of the ball to obviously keep it from rolling out.

In 17th century loaded military barrels I sometimes discovered very fragile wadding pieces from newspapers or books, especially in wheel-lock pistols. They may have been used to form the paper cartridges. A few torn and crumbled pieces of printed paper I found in an untouched leather holster for a long wheel-lock pistol of ca. 1620; the text was German, printed in early 17th century types, with the date 1621 clearly visible. This must have been from a paper cartridge because it contained traces of black powder and was found on the bottom of a lateral compartment containing a wooden block drilled for four paper cartriges, the wood heavily damaged and with considerable remains of black powder on the inside walls.

Even for me who has actually seen and handled a great lot of unique things, this was so unbelievable that I made a photo documentation (sadly not of the paper fragments) which I attach. The length of the holster was 64 cm, the caliber of the bores ca. 12 mm each.

This considered, I now doubt myself that those short strands of tow were actually used as a wadding because the paper of the cartridges would have served that purpose. I think that Manuel's thesis is more convincing than my own and that tow was used for cleaning the priming pan of the match- or wheel-lock musket.

Extremely demanding, these discussions, thank you so much!

With all my best wishes,
Michael

[Matchlock]

The rest.

[Matchlock]

... for officers of the Trabanten-Leibgarde (bodyguards) of the Electors of Saxony, ca. 1580.
As you may have noticed on one on the samples in my collection, all Saxon patrons open by a shift button on the underside while Nuremberg or Ausgburg productions open by a push button on the front.

Photos taken by the author in the collection of famous Burg Eltz.

m

[Matchlock]

For comparison with the items in the previous post, I repost my fine Suhl made Saxon patron of ca. 1580, which features the same shifting knob opening mechanism installed in the bottom mount.

m

[Matchlock]

Another etched Saxon patron, identically equal to my sample posted in the previous thread in both form and workmanship, apart from the etching and the fact that the wooden body of my piece is not stamped in imitation of natural staghorn but leather covered.
This one is dated 1587 and numbered 'NUMERI 23', for guardsman #23.

Best,
m

[Matchlock]

The remaining images.

m

[Matchlock]

Please also see my threads on wheellock spanners 1520-1650:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...-lock+spanners

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...-lock+spanners

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...llock+spanners

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...l-lock+spanner


Best,
Michael

[Piotr M. Zalewski]

Dear Matchlock!
I admire your knowlage so may be you will know anything about such objects, I have seen in Viena Arsenal Museum. I had asked them, but they said me that this cartridge pouches (which for me looks as polish onces) are withougt history. About sabre with cartridge I had know that it is from Grace Museum.
Can you help? As I had written you in private mesage I am writting a doctorate work about origin of "polish cartridge pouch" so any information I need is very important for me.
Looking forward....
With best regards...
Piotr M. Zalewski

[Matchlock]

Dear Piotr,


Thank you so much for your kind words, they made me blush!

Let's get serious though: actually, admiration is not at all what I deserve. Having dedicated more than 35 years of my life solely to the studies of a section of historical weaponry almost completely neglected so far, I feel obliged to be able and clarify with authority literally any question, as well as produce actual samples to back up my statement.
If it were not so I would have to regard myself as a flash in the pan -to abide by the matchlock image (I do like this pun ).

Concerning your query, I leafed through my 280,000+ analog photo archives for hours until I finally managed to come up with the samples attached. I took them at the Graz Armory (Landeszeughaus) in Styria, Southern Austria, and at the Heeresgeschichtliches Museum (Army Museum) in Vienna.
Depicted are so-called Fuhrmann-Dusäggen (carters' tessaks), ca. 1580-90, meaning Austria manufactured sabers the scabbards of which are combined with a patron. The latter consists of a core of tin-plated sheet divided in an average of 5 soldered cylindrical compartments for paper cartridges. This tinned iron patron was covered with thin leather and formed an integral part of the scabbard locket (German: Mundblech).

For today, and to make your mouth water, I attached a few photos of Styrian Dusäggen in the Graz Armory..
Of course, I will digitalize and post more soon.


Best,
Michael

[Piotr M. Zalewski]

Dear Matchlock,
Thank you for information. Could you tell me what type of firearms they use?
Piotr M. Zalewski