Tulwar-hilted kukri information

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
Whilst not in any position to contribute to the historical/academic discussion I would like to point out that the quotation used from Egerton page 38, assuming that it has been quoted verbatim, that ' using their heavy semi-circular ended swords with great effect' does not immediately strike me as a reference to what I perceive as a Kukri, large or otherwise. If this was a reference to a Kukri I would think that the author would have said ' heavy semi-circular swords'. The addition of the word 'ended' in this context would certainly make me envisage the sword type that I know of as a Kora , see attached photo. I would doubt very much that he, Egerton, would have used the word 'ended' for any literary effect and that he meant exactly what he said i.e. the end of the sword was semi-circular. A Kukri has many qualities but I have yet to see one with a semi-circular end. I, of course, stand to be corrected on any or all of the aforementioned.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. My apologies Simon but 'curved short sword' and ' heavy semi-circular ended sword' do not "sound similar".

Hi Norman, thank you for the photo! I think this is the first tulwar handled kora I have seen! I agree with your comments. Also, the kora blade has a curved design clearly very different from the khukri. Not as if the khukri were a smaller version of the kora, with some changes, but another idea of design on the whole body. I personally believe the khukris could be influenced in the blade design by indian weapons, but not beign originally an indian weapon in itself.

I wonder which nepali historian discounted the article, and in which basis and arguments, and where is the source to read the argumentation. I also wouldn´t work on the assumption of the down curved blades as introduced to Nepal or India. I would begin to search if they were introduced there, or if they were a local invention. The fact that down curved blades from other places are better known or maybe older, does not mean necessarily that the design has only one origin. According with Quesada Sanz, the falcata is a weapon which has its origins in the mediterranean basin, and is not a completely original iberic development. He presents his arguments based on archaeological evidence on the book aforementioned.
Regards

Gonzalo

Regards

Gonzalo

[fearn]

Hi Gonzalo,

You're right, we can't prove the khukuri is not an independent invention on the Indian subcontinent, somewhere, in the last thousand years or so. That's quite possible.

Reminds me of some TV show I was watching that claimed that the crossbow was a chinese invention (sort of like gunpowder, but older) that traveled on the silk road to Europe. The point that Jared Diamond and others like to make is that very little in Eurasia was independently invented, be it writing, alphabets, logograms, paper, gunpowder, domesticated animals or certain forms of government, simply because there was so much trade from Europe and North Africa all the way to China, starting apparently around 1000 BCE. The amounts and routes certainly varied over time, but things and ideas traveled.

That said, I'd suggest that the we can make a pretty good case for the khukuri design dispersing east from the Mediterranean and ending up in Nepal.

One thing to remember is a khukuri, for all its virtues, isn't a perfect weapon for all situations. Nothing is. I'd bet one reason it's stayed popular in Nepal is because it fits the needs of the people well. Whether the design originated in the Himalayas somewhere, or whether it originated in the mountains of the Mediterranean basin and made the trek on someone's belt, it's well-adapted for a rural, agrarian lifestyle on the slopes.

F

[Gonzalo G]

I agree with you, Fearn, all that can be. Though it seems that Nepal is out of the commercial routes, that can be. The problem is to find evidence. I believe there is too much to discover and learn in history and archeology matters...I feel we are just beginning...too many questions unanswered, and clouding everything too many myths and speculations...The mediterranen basin is the source of the more antique cultures. But about the khukri, I believe is crucial to find out when did it appear, and how were their original versions. If it is a latter weapon, lets say 17th-18th Century, we must find its origins in more near places and weapons.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Tim Simmons]

Sorry I just cannot believe the Alexander myth. It smacks of Victorian bollocks, like Congo knives being dropped from trees "the Congolese live in trees you know" Then adopted by the "COLLECTORS" The Victornian collectors had intertests in ideas of collections from noble races. We know collector belief can become very firmly entrenched. As for visiting museums that can be purely just a collection, perhaps with a little knowledge based on the old story. Who is not going to tell the wealthy visitor what they want to hear?

The Victorians had no idea of Mohenjo-Daro when forming these ideas of Greek influence.
Just the idea that the Western world formed from Greco/Roman base has no vestige of such a splendid weapon should make one question the idea that one small pocket of people should adopt this weapon and nothing else of the culture.

In this map of Alexanders route to India he got nowhere near Napal. Why not find the Kukri {outside of British Empire production} in Pakistan and the other lands on his advance and retreat.

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/ancien....php?linenum=8