strange sudanic (?) sword

colin henshaw · 25th February 2009, 10:24 AM

A couple of other thoughts spring to mind - I recall reading in a book on the Mahdist period, that Muslim pilgrims from West Africa would pass through Sudan on their way to Mecca. So I guess its not impossible for this sword to have received a new scabbard in the Sudan (Darfur ?).

Also, is it my imagination, but does not the round iron pommel remind you of the pommels to be found on old Omani swords (which often ended up in Eastern Africa) ?

Regards

Lew · 25th February 2009, 11:12 AM

The leather wrap on the hilt is Tebu the center bulb is also a Tebu trait. This could be a very old example that predates the skull crusher style pommel daggers.

Lew

Jim McDougall · 25th February 2009, 02:49 PM

LOL!!! A 'kaskouba' Bill ?!!!!

...absolutely beautiful !!!! I love it!

Martin...thank you for the supporting detail on the Cameroon swords, with which this seems to share distinct influences. This does remind me of the Mandara arm swords we discussed some time ago, those with the 'skull crusher' pommels.
Nicely observed Lew, on the Tebu wrap and those pommels.

Colin, very much agree, the caravans with Pilgrims to Mecca did indeed provide transit for many weapons along with all manner of trade items, in most cases brought by individuals to sell or barter in financing thier journey. The observation on the pommel is outstanding, and exactly what I was trying to place....it is indeed much in the manner of those Omani kattaras, but without the peak. The Omani trade that traversed the African continent from its main base in its Sultanate at Zanzibar definitely accounted for many instances of weapons diffusion along those routes.
This is in my opinion, why the distinct flared scabbard that is so typical of the Sudanese kaskara is solidly a component of the Manding sabre scabbards in Mali......as well as how the Moroccan s'boula daggers became situated in Zanzibar where Burton (after Demmin) declared these 'Zanzibar swords'.

This sword might easily have been sold along these routes, and refurbished in Nilotic regions in Sudan, with influences from Omani kattaras that certainly may have entered these spheres as well.

These kinds of intriguing hybrids are what makes the study of ethnographic weapons the exciting adventure that it is!!! Its not always easy to get my armchair 'howdah' mounted on those camels, but as much as I can...there I am!!! bouncing along in the middle of those caravans!!

All the best,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 25th February 2009, 04:50 PM

Stephen, are these possibly what you think may be marks? Do you have the sword? I really regret not having a go at it.

stephen wood · 25th February 2009, 05:14 PM

...no, I thought I saw something on the crosspiece

Martin Lubojacky · 26th February 2009, 12:30 PM

Post facto I am hereby sending several pictures. The lowest sword is from Kano (Nigeria), upper three items are from Provincie Extreme North (Cameroon; mace and longer sword from Mandara). The first sword down from top and the fourth (lowest) are very heavy, the blade being very thick. The length of the first one (always down from top; the shortest) is 70 cm. They say the mace has been used during ceremonial occasions, but it is forcible and wighty weapon. I am also a attaching tips and handles + two pictures of examples of current daggers from Mandara - Cameroon/Nigeria northern borderland. The second sword from the top should be (?) from Jihad movement lead by Fulani accross West Africa during the first half of 19 century (said Mandara villager).

Regards,

Martin

stephen wood · 26th February 2009, 02:57 PM

Wow

...mine looks rather like the top sword

Lew · 26th February 2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

but it is forcible and wighty weapon. I am also a attaching tips and handles + two pictures of examples of current daggers from Mandara - Cameroon/Nigeria northern borderland. The second sword from the top should be (?) from Jihad movement lead by Fulani accross West Africa during the first half of 19 century (said Mandara villager).

Regards,

Martin

Martin

Your daggers are quite interesting and probably from the Kirdi tribe. Can we see what the blade looks like on the two please.

Lew

25th February 2009, 11:12 AM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	The leather wrap on the hilt is Tebu the center bulb is also a Tebu trait. This could be a very old example that predates the skull crusher style pommel daggers. Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 25th February 2009 at 11:22 AM.

25th February 2009, 04:50 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Stephen, are these possibly what you think may be marks? Do you have the sword? I really regret not having a go at it. Attached Images

26th February 2009, 12:30 PM	#6
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Post facto I am hereby sending several pictures. The lowest sword is from Kano (Nigeria), upper three items are from Provincie Extreme North (Cameroon; mace and longer sword from Mandara). The first sword down from top and the fourth (lowest) are very heavy, the blade being very thick. The length of the first one (always down from top; the shortest) is 70 cm. They say the mace has been used during ceremonial occasions, but it is forcible and wighty weapon. I am also a attaching tips and handles + two pictures of examples of current daggers from Mandara - Cameroon/Nigeria northern borderland. The second sword from the top should be (?) from Jihad movement lead by Fulani accross West Africa during the first half of 19 century (said Mandara villager). Regards, Martin Attached Images

25th February 2009, 10:24 AM	#1
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,429	A couple of other thoughts spring to mind - I recall reading in a book on the Mahdist period, that Muslim pilgrims from West Africa would pass through Sudan on their way to Mecca. So I guess its not impossible for this sword to have received a new scabbard in the Sudan (Darfur ?). Also, is it my imagination, but does not the round iron pommel remind you of the pommels to be found on old Omani swords (which often ended up in Eastern Africa) ? Regards

25th February 2009, 02:49 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	LOL!!! A 'kaskouba' Bill ?!!!! ...absolutely beautiful !!!! I love it! Martin...thank you for the supporting detail on the Cameroon swords, with which this seems to share distinct influences. This does remind me of the Mandara arm swords we discussed some time ago, those with the 'skull crusher' pommels. Nicely observed Lew, on the Tebu wrap and those pommels. Colin, very much agree, the caravans with Pilgrims to Mecca did indeed provide transit for many weapons along with all manner of trade items, in most cases brought by individuals to sell or barter in financing thier journey. The observation on the pommel is outstanding, and exactly what I was trying to place....it is indeed much in the manner of those Omani kattaras, but without the peak. The Omani trade that traversed the African continent from its main base in its Sultanate at Zanzibar definitely accounted for many instances of weapons diffusion along those routes. This is in my opinion, why the distinct flared scabbard that is so typical of the Sudanese kaskara is solidly a component of the Manding sabre scabbards in Mali......as well as how the Moroccan s'boula daggers became situated in Zanzibar where Burton (after Demmin) declared these 'Zanzibar swords'. This sword might easily have been sold along these routes, and refurbished in Nilotic regions in Sudan, with influences from Omani kattaras that certainly may have entered these spheres as well. These kinds of intriguing hybrids are what makes the study of ethnographic weapons the exciting adventure that it is!!! Its not always easy to get my armchair 'howdah' mounted on those camels, but as much as I can...there I am!!! bouncing along in the middle of those caravans!! All the best, Jim

25th February 2009, 05:14 PM	#5
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...no, I thought I saw something on the crosspiece

26th February 2009, 02:57 PM	#7
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	Wow ...mine looks rather like the top sword