Mau Mau gun.

ausjulius · 1st February 2009, 05:33 PM

if you fired a .303 in this you would be deader than a door nail in a second,
it is proably a .22 or a 38 caliber pistol round or maybe at the most a 9mm,
ive owned some of these in the past. some pistols with very long barrels , about 45cm or longer, useless junk they were 9mm guns with a sprung pin you pulled back and a simple trigger..

there barrels were made from 9mm seamless tubing,
it seems the mau mau had little or no skill making guns, and these things were sad... poor contraptions that showed no understand of how a firearms would be used or how it should work..

rely none had a practical range of more than 5 or 6 meters.. as they were firing from an unsized 9mm tube...a and they also were firing normal rounds and not a round ball .. so they just tumbled out ...
dangerous things,, and yes i fired some .. not holding them!, as im not insane..
i aquired a bundle of them from a gun collector who had relatives who had been in kenya in the 40s and 50s..

he told me these type of guns never accounted for much and that sabotage seemed to have been the made cause of trouble.. i can see a spear or a machete being more effective than these bits of junk..
but i guess the instinctive human fear of a gun no matter how poor is more effective than a machete or spear..

if you want to see good quality functional homemade guns that are effectivly used in combat the guns from new guinea and from boganville are some good exsamples..
many look like copies of harrington and richard single barrel shotguns, but on closer inspection they are made from pipes and hunks for steel and such,,

most are 12 gauge , ive seen some smaller 410's too, these are mostly strong enough to be used for hunting and such as well..

what is surprising is that there homemade guns are mostly made in the tribal areas of which most are still in a semi stoneage exsistance.. so these people many times are using wood and stone tools still in areas they cant get steel tools for

guns are cheap in PNG , so anyone living near a town can buy a shotgun for next to nothing and a ak47 or SLR for a fair price.. so there isnt any need to make them..

in west papua the bush guns mut make up half the guns the natives use to fignt the indonesian ocupation with.. same with in boganville..

Tim Simmons · 1st February 2009, 07:05 PM

Very interesting. A picture of the PNG guns would be great? I too only imagine this Mau Mau example working with a 9mm round. Bang at six metres from under a coat or jacket and you might be dead if not you are very unlikely to start jumping around fighting back. I would think it not hard for the house maid or other servants to secure the odd 9mm round from thier masters home. I have heard that they say in counter terroism, "shoot the women first"

.

Norman McCormick · 1st February 2009, 08:02 PM

I think it would be much easier, mechanically, to use a rimmed round, .380 or .303, rather than a rimless, 9mm, one and possibly easier to source as, if I remember correctly, the only British weapon at that time to use a 9mm round was the Sten/Sterling. The European farmers etc. would have used a more eclectic range of calibres but I would think 9mm would still be less evident than some others. In the end the insurgents would have used whatever they could get a hold of.
Regards,
Norman.

Tim Simmons · 1st February 2009, 08:06 PM

Good point Norman. It is a one shot mission.

Gavin Nugent · 2nd February 2009, 12:41 AM

My two cents worth.

I have seen a good many images over the years from PNG on these weapons. Most often the captions that I remember stated them as home made shot guns made by "rebels"... my two cents.

Gav

ausjulius · 15th February 2009, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

My two cents worth.

I have seen a good many images over the years from PNG on these weapons. Most often the captions that I remember stated them as home made shot guns made by "rebels"... my two cents.

Gav

i dont know if one could call them rebels, mostly in PNG these guns are used in tribal disputes and hunting..
in boganville they were used in the revolution but now modern guns are common ,

fearn · 15th February 2009, 05:43 PM

Just pitching in my two kina...

Biologists from Alfred Russel Wallace to Jared Diamond have worked with the Papuans when doing biological surveys.

What's interesting is that they report that the Papuans are more intelligent, on average, than the Malays they worked with (or most of the whites). They were observant, creative, inventive, and had great memories. Diamond uses this observation as the cornerstone of his Guns, Germs, and Steel. A PNG native inspired the book, because he asked Diamond, basically, why the white men had all this neat technology, when they were all so stupid, whereas his people were stuck with Stone Age kit. (Diamond's thesis, if you haven't read it, is that PNG is small, isolated, and quite hostile to civilized life, and that our ancestors had it easy, because of the large number of people trading across Europe and Asia for millenia. Even though the Papuans were smarter, they were limited by low numbers, limited resources, and by all the work they had to do just to survive.).

That said, I'm not surprised that the highlanders are making working guns out of whatever they can get their hands on. Good for them.

Best,

F

ausjulius · 15th February 2009, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

I think it would be much easier, mechanically, to use a rimmed round, .380 or .303, rather than a rimless, 9mm, one and possibly easier to source as, if I remember correctly, the only British weapon at that time to use a 9mm round was the Sten/Sterling. The European farmers etc. would have used a more eclectic range of calibres but I would think 9mm would still be less evident than some others. In the end the insurgents would have used whatever they could get a hold of.
Regards,
Norman.

yes i would think so to,, but ive seen many that are chambered fro 9mm ammo!!! remember the sten gun was a most common police gun as were the bronwing pistols and also other 9mm hand guns being in common ownership,
ive seen many in .380 revolver ammunition also, just the 2 i had were 9mm as there was no place for a rim and they worked with a slamming bolt!
and to be honest the way the 9mm round works is by slam fire on some of these arms is alarming to say the least. ofcorse, now that i think of it ,, it being a slam fire,

ahhhh..maybe i am wrong, it was along time ago, .the guy i got it from said they were shooting stengun ammunition throught them they had stolen, i got 2 if the pistols from a gun collector who have been in kenya in the 50s..
it was proably also firing the .380 ammo as the firing pin was fixed it wouldnt matter if there was a rim or not.. i never tryed to fire one of these guns, ..

here you can seeing PNG the home made gund from the highlanders, sorry i didnt have time to find pictures, some are loaded by moving the hole barrel others are break open guns like normal shotguns,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-zEQgVkQZg

2nd February 2009, 12:41 AM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Hmmm My two cents worth. I have seen a good many images over the years from PNG on these weapons. Most often the captions that I remember stated them as home made shot guns made by "rebels"... my two cents. Gav

1st February 2009, 05:33 PM	#1
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 446	if you fired a .303 in this you would be deader than a door nail in a second, it is proably a .22 or a 38 caliber pistol round or maybe at the most a 9mm, ive owned some of these in the past. some pistols with very long barrels , about 45cm or longer, useless junk they were 9mm guns with a sprung pin you pulled back and a simple trigger.. there barrels were made from 9mm seamless tubing, it seems the mau mau had little or no skill making guns, and these things were sad... poor contraptions that showed no understand of how a firearms would be used or how it should work.. rely none had a practical range of more than 5 or 6 meters.. as they were firing from an unsized 9mm tube...a and they also were firing normal rounds and not a round ball .. so they just tumbled out ... dangerous things,, and yes i fired some .. not holding them!, as im not insane.. i aquired a bundle of them from a gun collector who had relatives who had been in kenya in the 40s and 50s.. he told me these type of guns never accounted for much and that sabotage seemed to have been the made cause of trouble.. i can see a spear or a machete being more effective than these bits of junk.. but i guess the instinctive human fear of a gun no matter how poor is more effective than a machete or spear.. if you want to see good quality functional homemade guns that are effectivly used in combat the guns from new guinea and from boganville are some good exsamples.. many look like copies of harrington and richard single barrel shotguns, but on closer inspection they are made from pipes and hunks for steel and such,, most are 12 gauge , ive seen some smaller 410's too, these are mostly strong enough to be used for hunting and such as well.. what is surprising is that there homemade guns are mostly made in the tribal areas of which most are still in a semi stoneage exsistance.. so these people many times are using wood and stone tools still in areas they cant get steel tools for guns are cheap in PNG , so anyone living near a town can buy a shotgun for next to nothing and a ak47 or SLR for a fair price.. so there isnt any need to make them.. in west papua the bush guns mut make up half the guns the natives use to fignt the indonesian ocupation with.. same with in boganville..

1st February 2009, 07:05 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Very interesting. A picture of the PNG guns would be great? I too only imagine this Mau Mau example working with a 9mm round. Bang at six metres from under a coat or jacket and you might be dead if not you are very unlikely to start jumping around fighting back. I would think it not hard for the house maid or other servants to secure the odd 9mm round from thier masters home. I have heard that they say in counter terroism, "shoot the women first" .

1st February 2009, 08:02 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	I think it would be much easier, mechanically, to use a rimmed round, .380 or .303, rather than a rimless, 9mm, one and possibly easier to source as, if I remember correctly, the only British weapon at that time to use a 9mm round was the Sten/Sterling. The European farmers etc. would have used a more eclectic range of calibres but I would think 9mm would still be less evident than some others. In the end the insurgents would have used whatever they could get a hold of. Regards, Norman.

1st February 2009, 08:06 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Good point Norman. It is a one shot mission.

15th February 2009, 05:43 PM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Just pitching in my two kina... Biologists from Alfred Russel Wallace to Jared Diamond have worked with the Papuans when doing biological surveys. What's interesting is that they report that the Papuans are more intelligent, on average, than the Malays they worked with (or most of the whites). They were observant, creative, inventive, and had great memories. Diamond uses this observation as the cornerstone of his Guns, Germs, and Steel. A PNG native inspired the book, because he asked Diamond, basically, why the white men had all this neat technology, when they were all so stupid, whereas his people were stuck with Stone Age kit. (Diamond's thesis, if you haven't read it, is that PNG is small, isolated, and quite hostile to civilized life, and that our ancestors had it easy, because of the large number of people trading across Europe and Asia for millenia. Even though the Papuans were smarter, they were limited by low numbers, limited resources, and by all the work they had to do just to survive.). That said, I'm not surprised that the highlanders are making working guns out of whatever they can get their hands on. Good for them. Best, F