Kayan mandau

Maurice · 31st January 2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronpakis

hello aso,

the double spiral is pretty common in asia but also outside. when it is seen on a indonesian item and especially in silver my first guess is timor region. There are numerous different styles in that region but very very often with this type of spiral. Unfortunatly i dont have any references for this piece from books. good luck!

greetingd Ron

Hi Ron,

Thanks for your reply. I have looked in the book of Hein, but can,t find this exact motif.......

I hope by 'aso' you don,t mean the dutch description of it???

Kind regards,
Maurice

asomotif · 31st January 2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

the dutch description of it

Dutch description of aso ?
Never though there would be one

Ps. Maurice, I also would not know what the amulet is.
Could it be part of a nechlace or some kind of jewelery ?

Nice hilt by the way. Would like some more poctures of the hilt.

Best regards,
Willem

scratch · 31st January 2009, 01:32 PM

Hello Maurice,
For some reason this protective amulet came to mind.
No disrespect intended

Kind regards,

Dan

Jim McDougall · 31st January 2009, 04:03 PM

Extremely interesting topic! I'd like to know more about these amulets, and hear from those of you who are field specific in these weapon forms from these ethnographic regions. From what I gather here, they were separate from the weapons, but worn along with them.
Dan's posts brought in the clear suggestion of the similarity to Celtic artistic style, and it does seem that such amuletic devices were often applied to thier sword hilts.
Obviously not suggesting Celtic presence in these regions, but noting the similarity only in accord with those suggestions. We have seen in so many cases how artistic themes and symbology have diffused over vast distances and across many cultures through time. It would be interesting to know what those with expertise in these weapons think.

David · 31st January 2009, 04:57 PM

Interesting similiarities Dan, but i'm fairly sure that we will find no actual connection between this amulet and Thor's hammer.

I also think that it is possible that an amulet like this might not originate in the same culture that the mandau is from. Isn't it possible that pieces like this might be acquired through trade or taken off a dead enemy? It looks somewhat like T'boli design and craft to me, but i do admit that my knowledge of that culture is limited.

Jim McDougall · 31st January 2009, 05:47 PM

It seems possible that trade was likely the most common vehicle for the diffusion of material culture along with many aspects of other cultures including of course religion, philosophy, literature etc. It seems to have been common for cultures to adopt interesting items and ideas that in some way corresponded to or could be applied to thier own perspective.

Jim McDougall · 31st January 2009, 05:53 PM

The ringlets at the bottom of the piece shown in the original post remind me in some ways of the guard features on some kampilan. While clearly a remote connection, perhaps diffusion through Spanish cultural infusion might have some bearing, and the vestiges of Celtic symbolism might have found some vehicle in that. Just suggestions for consideration.

ronpakis · 31st January 2009, 06:16 PM

sorry sorry!

no not the dutch aso.

i did not read the thread back and thought asomotif was the threadstarter.

greetings ron

31st January 2009, 01:32 PM	#3
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Hello Maurice, For some reason this protective amulet came to mind. No disrespect intended Kind regards, Dan Attached Images

31st January 2009, 06:16 PM	#8
ronpakis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: netherlands Posts: 75	aso or aso sorry sorry! no not the dutch aso. i did not read the thread back and thought asomotif was the threadstarter. greetings ron

31st January 2009, 04:03 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Extremely interesting topic! I'd like to know more about these amulets, and hear from those of you who are field specific in these weapon forms from these ethnographic regions. From what I gather here, they were separate from the weapons, but worn along with them. Dan's posts brought in the clear suggestion of the similarity to Celtic artistic style, and it does seem that such amuletic devices were often applied to thier sword hilts. Obviously not suggesting Celtic presence in these regions, but noting the similarity only in accord with those suggestions. We have seen in so many cases how artistic themes and symbology have diffused over vast distances and across many cultures through time. It would be interesting to know what those with expertise in these weapons think.

31st January 2009, 04:57 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Interesting similiarities Dan, but i'm fairly sure that we will find no actual connection between this amulet and Thor's hammer. I also think that it is possible that an amulet like this might not originate in the same culture that the mandau is from. Isn't it possible that pieces like this might be acquired through trade or taken off a dead enemy? It looks somewhat like T'boli design and craft to me, but i do admit that my knowledge of that culture is limited.

31st January 2009, 05:47 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	It seems possible that trade was likely the most common vehicle for the diffusion of material culture along with many aspects of other cultures including of course religion, philosophy, literature etc. It seems to have been common for cultures to adopt interesting items and ideas that in some way corresponded to or could be applied to thier own perspective.

31st January 2009, 05:53 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	The ringlets at the bottom of the piece shown in the original post remind me in some ways of the guard features on some kampilan. While clearly a remote connection, perhaps diffusion through Spanish cultural infusion might have some bearing, and the vestiges of Celtic symbolism might have found some vehicle in that. Just suggestions for consideration.