Help with Philippine Sword

t_c · 28th January 2009, 08:17 PM

No ideas, eh?

OK, does anyone know what "longer" weapons were used in Luzon, if there were any specific types, etc. around 3 feet long or at least significantly longer than your average bolo? I'll settle for a rough idea or any leads for further research.
Thanks in advance!

Rick · 28th January 2009, 08:22 PM

There are some miniature forms of both Moro and non Moro ew's shown and discussed in this thread , also a link in that to another with more examples.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8261

Robert · 29th January 2009, 12:36 AM

T_C, I only have two swords from the Philippines that are over thirty inches in length and both are probably from Luzon. I could post a picture of them if you would like me to but both of these show strong Spanish influence and I doubt seriously that either are what you are looking for. It is a shame that the description he gave was not more complete.

Robert

t_c · 29th January 2009, 05:51 AM

Rick: Thanks for the lead, I'll have to dig into it some more (only have had time for cursory look).

Robert: That would be great, I'd really appreciate it. I'm sure it was a matter of practicality and training that drove what he chose to use. I doubt you could be too picky in war time when you just got off the sub and relied on the locals to outfit you. I'd be interested in seeing some examples of long swords from the PI anyways.

thanks,
tom

P.S. Here's an interesting excerpt from the interview regarding one of his encounters in WWII for those interested:

FMA: What was the most memorable encounter you had with the enemy?
LG: Well it is hard to try and choose one particular encounter because they were all very horrifying. One Bonsai attack comes to mind, in early June 1945 on a rainy day. A large number of enemy soldiers charged our position. We formed a wedge or triangle formation, two on the side and one as a point man. I was point man. Just like any Bonsai charge the enemy was always noisy. Yelling and shouting, they are not afraid to die. The Filipino guerrillas, on the other hand, chew their tobacco, grit their teeth and wing their bolos, chop here, jab there, long bolos, short daggers, pointed bamboo, pulverized chili peppers with sand deposited in bamboo tubes to spray so the enemy cannot see. By now my adrenaline must have gone up. One bayonet and samurai sword came simultaneously. The samurai sword was in front of me while the bayonet was a little to the left. With my left hand I parried the bayonet. I blocked the sword coming down on me. The bayonet man went by and his body came in line with my bolo. That’s when I came down to cut his left hip. The Samurai was coming back with a backhand blow. I met his triceps with the bolo and chopped it to the ground. After the encounter I wiped my face with my left hand to clear my eyes from the rain and found bloodstains on my face. There were many more encounters. But our job was not to be detected by the enemy; our mission was to send back vital information on the enemy to headquarters.

Gonzalo G · 29th January 2009, 07:01 AM

The only reference I have found to this sword, in several languajes, comes from this single interview to Leo Giron. Maybe in philippino languaje there is some other reference.
Regards

Gonzalo

Nonoy Tan · 29th January 2009, 05:29 PM

Hi Tom,

You may want to inspect this book: "The collection of primitive weapons and armor of the Philippine islands in the United States National museum, (Smithsonian institution. United States National museum. Bulletin 137)"

It has a list of Philippine weapons in their local names.

Unfortunately, I am travelling and do not have my copy to check for you

Dimasalang · 29th January 2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

The only reference I have found to this sword, in several languajes, comes from this single interview to Leo Giron. Maybe in philippino languaje there is some other reference.
Regards

Gonzalo

Being Leo Giron was born in Pangasinan, aside from Tagalog(the universal language), most likely he was raised speaking Ilocano and Pangasinan dialects. My family on my mothers side stems from Pangasinan(she speaks all 3 languages). I just spoke with my uncle, he has never heard of the name or term "talonason"...not to say it is not of Ilocos, but he has never heard the term in or around Pangasinan. In WWII most guerrilla fighting took place in Northern Luzon(majority Ilocano country). Maybe someone who is pure Ilocano or of another dialect from northern Luzon may know. Nearly all of them have different names for sword or bolo.

Luzon may just be one island, but it is the largest main island and it is huge(42,000sq miles). Pangasinan was a heavily controlled and influenced province during the Spanish era. Actually, nearly all of Luzon was heavily influenced by the Spanish, except for the remote mountain regions of northern Luzon...so I wouldn't think of the sword to be truly unique or out of the ordinary. This sword may just remain a mystery since GM Leo seems to be the only one who has ever referred to it.

Rick · 29th January 2009, 06:44 PM

May be found on this page under Philippine ..

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/index.html

29th January 2009, 06:44 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Kreiger's Plates May be found on this page under Philippine .. http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/index.html

28th January 2009, 08:17 PM	#1
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	No ideas, eh? OK, does anyone know what "longer" weapons were used in Luzon, if there were any specific types, etc. around 3 feet long or at least significantly longer than your average bolo? I'll settle for a rough idea or any leads for further research. Thanks in advance!

28th January 2009, 08:22 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	There are some miniature forms of both Moro and non Moro ew's shown and discussed in this thread , also a link in that to another with more examples. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8261

29th January 2009, 12:36 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	T_C, I only have two swords from the Philippines that are over thirty inches in length and both are probably from Luzon. I could post a picture of them if you would like me to but both of these show strong Spanish influence and I doubt seriously that either are what you are looking for. It is a shame that the description he gave was not more complete. Robert

29th January 2009, 05:51 AM	#4
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Rick: Thanks for the lead, I'll have to dig into it some more (only have had time for cursory look). Robert: That would be great, I'd really appreciate it. I'm sure it was a matter of practicality and training that drove what he chose to use. I doubt you could be too picky in war time when you just got off the sub and relied on the locals to outfit you. I'd be interested in seeing some examples of long swords from the PI anyways. thanks, tom P.S. Here's an interesting excerpt from the interview regarding one of his encounters in WWII for those interested: FMA: What was the most memorable encounter you had with the enemy? LG: Well it is hard to try and choose one particular encounter because they were all very horrifying. One Bonsai attack comes to mind, in early June 1945 on a rainy day. A large number of enemy soldiers charged our position. We formed a wedge or triangle formation, two on the side and one as a point man. I was point man. Just like any Bonsai charge the enemy was always noisy. Yelling and shouting, they are not afraid to die. The Filipino guerrillas, on the other hand, chew their tobacco, grit their teeth and wing their bolos, chop here, jab there, long bolos, short daggers, pointed bamboo, pulverized chili peppers with sand deposited in bamboo tubes to spray so the enemy cannot see. By now my adrenaline must have gone up. One bayonet and samurai sword came simultaneously. The samurai sword was in front of me while the bayonet was a little to the left. With my left hand I parried the bayonet. I blocked the sword coming down on me. The bayonet man went by and his body came in line with my bolo. That’s when I came down to cut his left hip. The Samurai was coming back with a backhand blow. I met his triceps with the bolo and chopped it to the ground. After the encounter I wiped my face with my left hand to clear my eyes from the rain and found bloodstains on my face. There were many more encounters. But our job was not to be detected by the enemy; our mission was to send back vital information on the enemy to headquarters.

29th January 2009, 07:01 AM	#5
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	The only reference I have found to this sword, in several languajes, comes from this single interview to Leo Giron. Maybe in philippino languaje there is some other reference. Regards Gonzalo

29th January 2009, 05:29 PM	#6
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	Hi Tom, You may want to inspect this book: "The collection of primitive weapons and armor of the Philippine islands in the United States National museum, (Smithsonian institution. United States National museum. Bulletin 137)" It has a list of Philippine weapons in their local names. Unfortunately, I am travelling and do not have my copy to check for you