Lion Head Knife With Leather Sheath

tom hyle · 16th April 2005, 02:49 PM

Plated blades are another of those things that get an unfairly bad name, IMHO. Yes, many modern decorator/"junk" blades that are just not quite modern/up to date enough to be stainless are chromed/nickel plated/etc. Yes, I've even seen Chinese knock-offs of that Giegeresque cutler England's blades made of brass and chromed. But many old blades were plated as a simple preserving method, especially in the days before stainless steel. A lot a lot of old sabres are nickel or tin plated, as a substitute for the then nonexistent (and anyway, undesired in a sword for other reasons) property of stainlessness. I have a nice Case (R, tm, whatever.....) bowie with a chromed blade. Chrome is the bad one to deal with, and I wonder if that isn't what Conogre has dealt with? It is the shiniest, the hardest, and is actually more abrasion-resistant than steel, and makes unhealthy dust, so a file (which cuts) is actually a better way to go through it than a grinder/sander, and was the method I used to sharpen my Case dagger, and it was a rock-solid pain to sharpen. Didn't cut myself (on that one

), but I think it gave me a cramp. If there's a layer of copper under it, it's probably chrome, because copper sticks well to steel and chrome, while they don't really like each other much. Of course where the plating is gone your blade will rust; that's why the plating was there. The association of rust resistance with quality steel is, in terms of traditional carbon steels, completely without basis, AFAIK; it is an industrial ideal, I guess. Some old steels were rather rust resistant. I've read claims this was achieved by temper (as with modern "stainless" steel [no steel is stainless; rust resistant is the proper term], though the effect I mention is not in my experience as full or strong as with modern stainless, by any means.), but of course, alloying, known or unknown, must've played a role.
I like some of the chromed Phillipino stuff, especially.
Mostly it seems to me like another cultural/fashion issue.

Mick · 16th April 2005, 09:34 PM

Speaking of chromed steel; while in Vietnam I picked up a chrome plated M1A1 Thompson which was left over from World War II in the Phillipines. The exterior of this item was in excellent condition in spite of its age although the barrell showed signs of being well pretty shot out. It (due to the long 10 inch length of the barrel) still shot extremely well easily grouping 2 inches or so at fiftY yards in single shot mode.

However when I was cowboying with it from the hip I started low and while pulling it up to the target, I sliced the frame in half. For some reason this little mishap (besides embarressing the hell out of me) got me kicked off of the National Police range in Saigon. Touchy people considering that in the field no one had the rear stock attached to insure that they sprayed the entire area around where ever the muzzle was pointed.

This is just added to show that chromed steel lasts a long long time as long as the chrome is intact.

Conogre · 16th April 2005, 09:45 PM

Here in Florida they commonly take small dried seahorses, starfish and sand dollars, dip them in a grey substance of some sort and then gold plate them for use as charms, ear-rings and pendants......having known a lady that worked in one of these small factories for a while was what initially familiarized me with the basic process (and appalled me as a use for wildlife)
In India, as I understand it, jobbers often go from village to village collecting locally made knives and then plate the blades en masse for the tourist market as they are all cheap by US standards, and have been doing so for well over 100 years.
I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't some very well made blades underneath many of those shiny eye catchers, particularly those of unusual styles, but it's a LOT of work, any way you look at it.
Mike

Federico · 17th April 2005, 02:12 AM

Gotta echo the sentiment that these things can be sharpened, but if the blade isnt hardened they dull fast as butter. It can be a real pain though to get through the plating, though plating itself isnt a sign of poor quality. Aside from original plating on construction, some collectors would also plate their blades when they brought em home. Mike had a kris that was plated, and it was a real pain to remove the plating, and then etch.

tom hyle · 17th April 2005, 06:01 AM

When they rechrome something at the chrome shop, do they strip the old chrome? How? Anyone know?

Conogre · 17th April 2005, 06:25 AM

According to the Discovery Channel's "Monster Garage", with acid, Tom.

Mike

tom hyle · 17th April 2005, 06:34 AM

mmmmm....that's what I was thinking, but do they have one that attacks chrome much more than steel? We would be up at the same time, wouln't we

?

spiral · 17th April 2005, 10:48 AM

drzzzz Most of these lion head kukri are untempered steel tourist pieces, but maybe one in 30 or 40 is tempered carbon steel & works well.

The brass handle is one of the rarer variations.

The scabbard looks oversize & is possibly a later replacment? unless it is the photo angle or somesuch?

Spiral

16th April 2005, 02:49 PM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Plated blades are another of those things that get an unfairly bad name, IMHO. Yes, many modern decorator/"junk" blades that are just not quite modern/up to date enough to be stainless are chromed/nickel plated/etc. Yes, I've even seen Chinese knock-offs of that Giegeresque cutler England's blades made of brass and chromed. But many old blades were plated as a simple preserving method, especially in the days before stainless steel. A lot a lot of old sabres are nickel or tin plated, as a substitute for the then nonexistent (and anyway, undesired in a sword for other reasons) property of stainlessness. I have a nice Case (R, tm, whatever.....) bowie with a chromed blade. Chrome is the bad one to deal with, and I wonder if that isn't what Conogre has dealt with? It is the shiniest, the hardest, and is actually more abrasion-resistant than steel, and makes unhealthy dust, so a file (which cuts) is actually a better way to go through it than a grinder/sander, and was the method I used to sharpen my Case dagger, and it was a rock-solid pain to sharpen. Didn't cut myself (on that one ), but I think it gave me a cramp. If there's a layer of copper under it, it's probably chrome, because copper sticks well to steel and chrome, while they don't really like each other much. Of course where the plating is gone your blade will rust; that's why the plating was there. The association of rust resistance with quality steel is, in terms of traditional carbon steels, completely without basis, AFAIK; it is an industrial ideal, I guess. Some old steels were rather rust resistant. I've read claims this was achieved by temper (as with modern "stainless" steel [no steel is stainless; rust resistant is the proper term], though the effect I mention is not in my experience as full or strong as with modern stainless, by any means.), but of course, alloying, known or unknown, must've played a role. I like some of the chromed Phillipino stuff, especially. Mostly it seems to me like another cultural/fashion issue.

16th April 2005, 09:34 PM	#2
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	Speaking of chromed steel; while in Vietnam I picked up a chrome plated M1A1 Thompson which was left over from World War II in the Phillipines. The exterior of this item was in excellent condition in spite of its age although the barrell showed signs of being well pretty shot out. It (due to the long 10 inch length of the barrel) still shot extremely well easily grouping 2 inches or so at fiftY yards in single shot mode. However when I was cowboying with it from the hip I started low and while pulling it up to the target, I sliced the frame in half. For some reason this little mishap (besides embarressing the hell out of me) got me kicked off of the National Police range in Saigon. Touchy people considering that in the field no one had the rear stock attached to insure that they sprayed the entire area around where ever the muzzle was pointed. This is just added to show that chromed steel lasts a long long time as long as the chrome is intact.

16th April 2005, 09:45 PM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Here in Florida they commonly take small dried seahorses, starfish and sand dollars, dip them in a grey substance of some sort and then gold plate them for use as charms, ear-rings and pendants......having known a lady that worked in one of these small factories for a while was what initially familiarized me with the basic process (and appalled me as a use for wildlife) In India, as I understand it, jobbers often go from village to village collecting locally made knives and then plate the blades en masse for the tourist market as they are all cheap by US standards, and have been doing so for well over 100 years. I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't some very well made blades underneath many of those shiny eye catchers, particularly those of unusual styles, but it's a LOT of work, any way you look at it. Mike

17th April 2005, 02:12 AM	#4
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Gotta echo the sentiment that these things can be sharpened, but if the blade isnt hardened they dull fast as butter. It can be a real pain though to get through the plating, though plating itself isnt a sign of poor quality. Aside from original plating on construction, some collectors would also plate their blades when they brought em home. Mike had a kris that was plated, and it was a real pain to remove the plating, and then etch.

17th April 2005, 06:01 AM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	When they rechrome something at the chrome shop, do they strip the old chrome? How? Anyone know?

17th April 2005, 06:25 AM	#6
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	According to the Discovery Channel's "Monster Garage", with acid, Tom. Mike

17th April 2005, 06:34 AM	#7
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	mmmmm....that's what I was thinking, but do they have one that attacks chrome much more than steel? We would be up at the same time, wouln't we ?

17th April 2005, 10:48 AM	#8
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	drzzzz Most of these lion head kukri are untempered steel tourist pieces, but maybe one in 30 or 40 is tempered carbon steel & works well. The brass handle is one of the rarer variations. The scabbard looks oversize & is possibly a later replacment? unless it is the photo angle or somesuch? Spiral