Can anyone read Japanese?

celtan · 5th January 2009, 05:36 AM

I though that kanji were identical for japanese and chinese, the difference being how they are pronounced, that is, the sounds associated to them.

stekemest · 5th January 2009, 10:25 AM

That's right celtan, but the combination of characters (as the grammar etc) differ. And Chinese mirrors look totally different; more ornamental (as everything else in Chinese decorative art).
"SHIGE", that's interesting. But I still wonder what that tree/second/mura-combination means. Still guess it's a name.

stm

Freddy · 5th January 2009, 04:54 PM

I asked Chieko, the Japanese wife of a distant relative, and she came up with the following translation :

From top to bottom she reads 11 characters

1 = TEN

2 = KA

3 = ICHI

4 & 5 = MATSU

6 = MURA

7 = INA

8 = BA

9 = KAMI

10 = SHIGE

11 = YOSHI

The two last characters are the maker's first name : SHIGEYOSHI.

INABA is the name of the town or village, which is now called TOTTORI

She thinks this piece was made between 1626 an 1747. Some of the chararcters used on this mirror are old characters from the Edo-period.

Atlantia · 5th January 2009, 07:23 PM

Wow! You all deserve a huge pat on the back for this sterling work gentlemen.
Welcome Manuel

Freddy! Thats amazing thank you!!! 17th/18thC is a huge suprise! And a VERY good one of course

Anyone want to try a full english translation?

Kind Regards
Gene

stekemest · 5th January 2009, 07:26 PM

Why does she think between 1626 and 1747?

I'd understand if she said 17th/18th century (though I'd still think it's not that old), but why those dates?

stm

migueldiaz · 6th January 2009, 05:08 AM

Here's the 2nd pass of my Tokyo-based Japanese friend.

He qualified that it's not easy to decipher the meaning, but this would be his best try:

[1] 1st to 3rd Kanji is " TEN KA ICHI "
[2] 4th to 5th Kanji is " MATSU MURA "
[3] 6th to 8th Kanji is " INA BA JYOU "
[4] 9th to 10th Kanji is " SHIGE YOSHI "

And his best "guess" of what all the above mean is:

"1" is a common name or the generic name for all mirror manufacturers in that period;

"2" is the name of the family that manufactures the mirror;

"3" is the place where the mirror was made; and

"4" is first name of mirror's maker.

drdavid · 6th January 2009, 06:40 AM

Matsu would be a possible for the 木乙 combination, given the variability in kanji over time, a standard version today looks like 枩. Matsumura is a Japanese surname so I think your friend is very likely correct miguel. Sorry to send everyone on a wild goose chase.
david

celtan · 6th January 2009, 11:14 PM

Hi Gene et al,

Thanks for the kind welcome.

Sorry, I forget to sign my name every so often. Best regards to y'all.

: )

Manuel Luis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Wow! You all deserve a huge pat on the back for this sterling work gentlemen.
Welcome Manuel

Freddy! Thats amazing thank you!!! 17th/18thC is a huge suprise! And a VERY good one of course

Anyone want to try a full english translation?

Kind Regards
Gene

5th January 2009, 05:36 AM	#1
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	I though that kanji were identical for japanese and chinese, the difference being how they are pronounced, that is, the sounds associated to them.

5th January 2009, 10:25 AM	#2
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 183	That's right celtan, but the combination of characters (as the grammar etc) differ. And Chinese mirrors look totally different; more ornamental (as everything else in Chinese decorative art). "SHIGE", that's interesting. But I still wonder what that tree/second/mura-combination means. Still guess it's a name. stm

5th January 2009, 04:54 PM	#3
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I asked Chieko, the Japanese wife of a distant relative, and she came up with the following translation : From top to bottom she reads 11 characters 1 = TEN 2 = KA 3 = ICHI 4 & 5 = MATSU 6 = MURA 7 = INA 8 = BA 9 = KAMI 10 = SHIGE 11 = YOSHI The two last characters are the maker's first name : SHIGEYOSHI. INABA is the name of the town or village, which is now called TOTTORI She thinks this piece was made between 1626 an 1747. Some of the chararcters used on this mirror are old characters from the Edo-period.

5th January 2009, 07:23 PM	#4
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Wow! You all deserve a huge pat on the back for this sterling work gentlemen. Welcome Manuel Freddy! Thats amazing thank you!!! 17th/18thC is a huge suprise! And a VERY good one of course Anyone want to try a full english translation? Kind Regards Gene

5th January 2009, 07:26 PM	#5
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 183	Why does she think between 1626 and 1747? I'd understand if she said 17th/18th century (though I'd still think it's not that old), but why those dates? stm

6th January 2009, 05:08 AM	#6
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Here's the 2nd pass of my Tokyo-based Japanese friend. He qualified that it's not easy to decipher the meaning, but this would be his best try: [1] 1st to 3rd Kanji is " TEN KA ICHI " [2] 4th to 5th Kanji is " MATSU MURA " [3] 6th to 8th Kanji is " INA BA JYOU " [4] 9th to 10th Kanji is " SHIGE YOSHI " And his best "guess" of what all the above mean is: "1" is a common name or the generic name for all mirror manufacturers in that period; "2" is the name of the family that manufactures the mirror; "3" is the place where the mirror was made; and "4" is first name of mirror's maker.

6th January 2009, 06:40 AM	#7
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 372	Matsu would be a possible for the 木乙 combination, given the variability in kanji over time, a standard version today looks like 枩. Matsumura is a Japanese surname so I think your friend is very likely correct miguel. Sorry to send everyone on a wild goose chase. david