Another wootz question

Jeff D · 4th January 2009, 09:51 PM

Hi Gonzalo,

Vanadium, Molybdenum, chromium, niobium and manganese all produce the effect. The elements can be found naturally in different quantities in different ores depending on their source. These are the one mentioned by Verhoeven in his 2001 Scientific America article. I am sure there are others as well. I suppose these elements could have been added to the crucible, but, I am sure the ingredients would be a highly guarded secret. I suspect the additions were not entirely known or the smiths imported into Spain would have been able to reproduce the watered pattern from the local ores. Apparently they were not.

All the Best
Jeff

Jeff Pringle · 5th January 2009, 06:58 AM

I’m sure the Turkish, Persian and Indian smiths were primarily working with metal from different production centers, which used somewhat different ores and processes. But perhaps the Turks were buying up all the ingots that were less prone to material loss and fracture while forging…
To recapture the old metal requires orchestrating the alloy, the ingot, the forging method, heat treatment, and even the polishing and etching - all have significant effects on the finished appearance.
To illustrate the importance of the ingot alloy to the pattern, here is metal from two modern ingots that were forged in a similar way. One of these is not going to ever look Persian!

4th January 2009, 09:51 PM	#1
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi Gonzalo, Vanadium, Molybdenum, chromium, niobium and manganese all produce the effect. The elements can be found naturally in different quantities in different ores depending on their source. These are the one mentioned by Verhoeven in his 2001 Scientific America article. I am sure there are others as well. I suppose these elements could have been added to the crucible, but, I am sure the ingredients would be a highly guarded secret. I suspect the additions were not entirely known or the smiths imported into Spain would have been able to reproduce the watered pattern from the local ores. Apparently they were not. All the Best Jeff Last edited by Jeff D; 4th January 2009 at 10:05 PM.

5th January 2009, 06:58 AM	#2
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	I’m sure the Turkish, Persian and Indian smiths were primarily working with metal from different production centers, which used somewhat different ores and processes. But perhaps the Turks were buying up all the ingots that were less prone to material loss and fracture while forging… To recapture the old metal requires orchestrating the alloy, the ingot, the forging method, heat treatment, and even the polishing and etching - all have significant effects on the finished appearance. To illustrate the importance of the ingot alloy to the pattern, here is metal from two modern ingots that were forged in a similar way. One of these is not going to ever look Persian! Attached Images