Unusual asymetrical Igarot spear head

migueldiaz · 4th January 2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Gotta point out, Miguel and VVV, that both of you have pictures that resemble these spearheads. In Miguel's post, it's on the extreme right, top picture, and in VVV's post, it's #7 and #8.

Yep, upon closer look it's there all right in the pic I posted. Thanks, Fearn!

Actually in Michael's pic, even #10 is asymmetrical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Miguel, i could be wrong, but i don't suspect that this spear was designed for combat. More likely fishing or some other sort of hunting.
Whaling harpoons were often asymmetrical and they flew just fine when thrown.

Thanks David for the pic of the harpoons

Haven't seen any of those before, so it's quite interesting for me to see the various types.

Looks then that the asymmetrical spearhead can indeed be a hunting spear. To validate the point, perhaps Nonoy can give us more info as to the type of game Igorots used to hunt?

I also googled "asymmetric spearhead" and a quote from the book Arrowpoints, Spearheads, and Knives of Prehistoric Times (2007) appears below.

So in summary, the authors are surmising that the primitive asymmetrical spearhead or arrowhead they are looking at must have functioned more as knives. Their rationale is found on the 2nd sentence in the last paragraph, per image below.

So back to the asymmetrical Igorot spearheads, is it possible then that the Igorots must have also used the asymmetric spearheads not for throwing, but more say as a halberd? I mean if the spearhead is heavier on one side, wouldn't that give the spear more stability during thrusts in close combat (i.e., in the sense that the spear's shaft will tend not to roll inside one's hands)?

That's pure speculation on my part though. But the next time I go to Baguio City which is deep in the heart of Igorot country, I'll look for oldtimers and ask what's the point

... Battara, here we go again!

Lew · 4th January 2009, 03:10 PM

Bill

First you have a nice spear there. It is a rarer form and is more likely a war spear or hunting spear rather than a fishing spear. As far as age probably WW2 or older and not 1960s -70s the patina on the shaft is a nice deep honey color which you would not see on a 30 year old spear. You did good.

Lew

fearn · 4th January 2009, 06:59 PM

Remember that it's only asymmetrical if it's held blade horizontal. If the blade is held vertically, it doesn't matter.

I'd also point out that, at the distance the spear could be thrown in battle, symmetry probably didn't matter all that much. It's so bulky that it's not going to fly far, regardless of the shape of its head. The fact that the shaft is widest near the head also might serve to balance the head.

That said, I'm not sure whether these spears were used more for throwing or in hand. Regardless, I think they could be thrown at need.

Just another thought,

F

migueldiaz · 5th January 2009, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

I'd also point out that, at the distance the spear could be thrown in battle, symmetry probably didn't matter all that much. It's so bulky that it's not going to fly far, regardless of the shape of its head. The fact that the shaft is widest near the head also might serve to balance the head.

That said, I'm not sure whether these spears were used more for throwing or in hand. Regardless, I think they could be thrown at need.

Hi Fearn, yes looks like it. Thanks.

Meaning if it was a spear and not an arrow, imparting a spin on the projectile is not critical. We can check that out also in the how-to's of spearthrowing, here and here.

As to the short effective range of the Igorot spear being bulky as said, we read the following, from Albert Jenks (1904):

"Men go to war armed with a wooden shield, a steel battle-ax, and one to three steel or wooden spears. It is a man's agility and skill in keeping his shield between himself and the enemy that preserves his life. Their battles are full of quick, incessant springing motion. There are sudden rushes and retreats, sneaking flank movements to cut an enemy off. The body is always in hand, always in motion, that it may respond instantly to every necessity. Spears are thrown with greatest accuracy and fatality up to 30 feet, and after the spears are discharged the contest, if continued, is at arms' length with the battle-axes. In such warfare no attitude or position can safely be maintained except for the shortest possible time."

Attached is another old pic showing Igorot warriors with spears ready, while expecting an attack.

Bill M · 5th January 2009, 08:52 AM

Thanks for all the replies. And Lew, I'd like to think it is older than 1960-70 and well kept. It is hard to get that patina otherwise. I have another one that has the same shaft color and a more common symmetrical head.

I also have a harpoon variety.

This is a heavy, solid weapon, but very well-balanced! A strong man could probably throw it 30 feet as Jenks remarked in Miguel Diaz's post.

The butt spike would indicate that it could be stuck in the ground. So we may be looking at the same type spear. Under enlargement there are several spears in the picture that are barbed and may have asymmetrical heads.

As to the asymmetric head causing airfoil disturbance, I find, in the case of this spear, this would be extremely unlikely. And though it could be used as a halberd, this also seems unlikely.

Like the military assegai I posted recently, this also seems to have the heft of a fighting stick/club. Like a Japanese Bo.

I have quite a few spears. There is a noticeable difference in those that were meant to be thrown, like some huge 9 foot spears from PNG that I acquired with a spear thrower.

4th January 2009, 03:10 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Bill First you have a nice spear there. It is a rarer form and is more likely a war spear or hunting spear rather than a fishing spear. As far as age probably WW2 or older and not 1960s -70s the patina on the shaft is a nice deep honey color which you would not see on a 30 year old spear. You did good. Lew

4th January 2009, 06:59 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Remember that it's only asymmetrical if it's held blade horizontal. If the blade is held vertically, it doesn't matter. I'd also point out that, at the distance the spear could be thrown in battle, symmetry probably didn't matter all that much. It's so bulky that it's not going to fly far, regardless of the shape of its head. The fact that the shaft is widest near the head also might serve to balance the head. That said, I'm not sure whether these spears were used more for throwing or in hand. Regardless, I think they could be thrown at need. Just another thought, F

5th January 2009, 08:52 AM	#5
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Thanks for all the replies. And Lew, I'd like to think it is older than 1960-70 and well kept. It is hard to get that patina otherwise. I have another one that has the same shaft color and a more common symmetrical head. I also have a harpoon variety. This is a heavy, solid weapon, but very well-balanced! A strong man could probably throw it 30 feet as Jenks remarked in Miguel Diaz's post. The butt spike would indicate that it could be stuck in the ground. So we may be looking at the same type spear. Under enlargement there are several spears in the picture that are barbed and may have asymmetrical heads. As to the asymmetric head causing airfoil disturbance, I find, in the case of this spear, this would be extremely unlikely. And though it could be used as a halberd, this also seems unlikely. Like the military assegai I posted recently, this also seems to have the heft of a fighting stick/club. Like a Japanese Bo. I have quite a few spears. There is a noticeable difference in those that were meant to be thrown, like some huge 9 foot spears from PNG that I acquired with a spear thrower.