Oceanic clubs

Gavin Nugent · 5th December 2008, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

BOTH DO APPEAR TO BE GOOD OLD CLUBS FROM NEW GUINEA. MOST ARE REFERRED TO AS MASSIM CLUBS BUT THERE MAY HAVE BEEN OTHER TRIBES WHO USED THIS FORM OF CLUB, I DON'T HAVE ANY REFRENCES TO SORT IT OUT.
THE TWO YOU HAVE DO APPEAR TO BE FROM THE PERIOD WHEN THEY WERE USED FOR FIGHTING. MOST OF THOSE SEEN FOR SALE ON EBAY BY ETH.ART DEALERS TODAY ARE NEW WITH NICE CARVED DESIGNS AND ARE DEFINITELY DANCE CLUBS THEY DO MAKE GOOD WALL HANGERS AND SOME DO SHOW THE CARVING ABILITYS OF THE LOCALS, THEY ALSO SELL A LOT OF WELL CARVED LIME SPATULAS AND BOWLS.
AS TO DANCE CLUBS MOST ANY CLUB MADE TODAY IF USED IN THE TRIBAL SOCIETY IN ANY OTHER WAY THAN TO SELL TO DEALERS OR TOURISTS WOULD ONLY BE USED IN CEREMONIES OR DANCES.
IN THE OLD DAYS THEY WERE USED IN DANCES TO PREPARE FOR A BATTLE AND IN A DANCE AFTERWARDS TO SHOW HOW BRAVE THEY WERE AND HOW THEY DESTROYED THEIR ENEMYS. IN THOSE DAYS YOU NOT ONLY HAD TO FIGHT BUT YOU HAD TO PERFORM AND TELL YOUR PART IN THE BATTLE ONCE YOU RETURNED TO THE VILLAGE OFTEN IN THE FORM OF A DANCE. I AM NOT SURE WHY THIS IS BUT IT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN A COMMON PRACTICE WORLD WIDE IN TRIBAL SOCIETYS. MANY DANCES WERE OFTEN MARTIAL ART TRAINING SORT OF LIKE THE KATA IN TODAYS MARTIAL ARTS. THIS WAS ESPECIALLY TRUE IN OCEANIC ,POLYNESIAN SOCIETYS.

Outstanding points of reference thanks Vandoo.
I cannot find any reference at this point int time for these smooth clubs without markings as usually found with this shape. Can anyone suggest some light reading on the matter? I am starting to take an interest in weapons of our Australian neighbours . The hilt differences are interesting to me too. the one on the left almost reminds me of a Bhutanese sword hilt. There is one small pic in Stones under clubs that point to this shape being as you say New Guinea but this too has engravings on it if you look very close. Who can I ask to discuss age and development of these clubs?

Gav

Gavin Nugent · 5th December 2008, 01:38 AM

Thanks Tim I will sure to post some good images when they arrive and thats for the info you have provided Fearn, very helpful.

Gav

VANDOO · 5th December 2008, 02:00 AM

I USED TO HAVE QUITE A FEW PICTURES OF A GOOD RANGE OF THESE CLUBS AS WELL AS THOUSANDS OF OTHER PICTURES COLLECTED OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS. BUT THE GREAT GOD OF THE INTERNET MICROSOFT RECENTLY GAVE ME A FREE UPGRADE I DID NOT APPROVE OF OR ASK FOR AND IT IS NOW GONE ALONG WITH ALL MY ADDRESSES AND OTHER COMPUTER FILES AND FUNCTIONS. SO I CAN ONLY OFFER PICTURES OF A MAP AND ONE RECENT CLUB SOUVINEER QUALITY, DEFINITELY A DANCE/WALLHANGER. THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF THESE COMING FROM THAT AREA LATELY AS THE EBAY ETH. ART DEALERS HAVE BEEN PUTTING THEM UP A LOT. EVEN THE OLDER PLAIN ONES USED TO BE REASONABLY PRICED BUT NOW THEY ARE WORKS OF ART NOT WEAPONS SO HANG ON TO YOUR WALLET THE SAME CAN BE SAID OF AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINAL WEAPONS LATELY.
BUT THEY ARE STILL A BARGAIN COMPARED TO GOOD SOUTH PACIFIC CLUBS. SUCH AS MARQUESAS, COOK ISLANDS, FIJI, ECT.

Gavin Nugent · 7th December 2008, 12:22 PM

Thanks Vandoo.

Here is a link and a little more info as Fearn has already pointed out. It seems they were an every day use item, maybe the plainer type I presented denote a more common place in their society? Maybe the are just really old?

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...s/1900.55.400/

Gav

Gavin Nugent · 31st December 2008, 01:21 AM

Hi guys and gals,

Here are the images of these clubs now that they have arrived.

They are both king and queen ebony, being a mixture of Black (king) and Brown (queen) ebony.

Very smooth old wood patina, lovely to the eye and touch.

The larger looking club has a hilt of 20cms overall, being 8cms wide at the cross guard. The "blade" is 53cms long, being 6cms wide at the hilt and swelling to 8cms wide near the tip. The hilt it approx 3cms thick at the widest point and the blade is approx 2cms thick at the widest point with a lovely oval taper to the "cutting" edge.

The other has a hilt of 19cms long, cross guard of 8cms, blade 53cms long, being 4cms wide at the hilt and 8cms at the tip, the pommel is 4cms thick and the cross guard is 3 cms thick, the blade being 2cms thick at the hilt and 1.5 cms thick at the tip, again with a lovely oval cross section.

They are a devistating weapon and my appreciation for ethnographical clubs has grown considerabely upon handling these two.

Gav

fearn · 31st December 2008, 02:28 AM

Niiiiice! Congrats on getting them!

F

Gavin Nugent · 31st December 2008, 02:54 AM

Thanks Fearn,

Looking at image one in the last post by me, the pommels have a "crown" look to it that I have seen somewhere else in the spaces of time but I cannot put my finger on it. Can yourself or anyone else point out where I have seen this "style" of crown or Head Dress???

Gav

5th December 2008, 01:38 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	thanks guys Thanks Tim I will sure to post some good images when they arrive and thats for the info you have provided Fearn, very helpful. Gav

5th December 2008, 02:00 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I USED TO HAVE QUITE A FEW PICTURES OF A GOOD RANGE OF THESE CLUBS AS WELL AS THOUSANDS OF OTHER PICTURES COLLECTED OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS. BUT THE GREAT GOD OF THE INTERNET MICROSOFT RECENTLY GAVE ME A FREE UPGRADE I DID NOT APPROVE OF OR ASK FOR AND IT IS NOW GONE ALONG WITH ALL MY ADDRESSES AND OTHER COMPUTER FILES AND FUNCTIONS. SO I CAN ONLY OFFER PICTURES OF A MAP AND ONE RECENT CLUB SOUVINEER QUALITY, DEFINITELY A DANCE/WALLHANGER. THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF THESE COMING FROM THAT AREA LATELY AS THE EBAY ETH. ART DEALERS HAVE BEEN PUTTING THEM UP A LOT. EVEN THE OLDER PLAIN ONES USED TO BE REASONABLY PRICED BUT NOW THEY ARE WORKS OF ART NOT WEAPONS SO HANG ON TO YOUR WALLET THE SAME CAN BE SAID OF AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINAL WEAPONS LATELY. BUT THEY ARE STILL A BARGAIN COMPARED TO GOOD SOUTH PACIFIC CLUBS. SUCH AS MARQUESAS, COOK ISLANDS, FIJI, ECT. Attached Images

7th December 2008, 12:22 PM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks Vandoo Thanks Vandoo. Here is a link and a little more info as Fearn has already pointed out. It seems they were an every day use item, maybe the plainer type I presented denote a more common place in their society? Maybe the are just really old? http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...s/1900.55.400/ Gav

31st December 2008, 01:21 AM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Spatualte clubs Hi guys and gals, Here are the images of these clubs now that they have arrived. They are both king and queen ebony, being a mixture of Black (king) and Brown (queen) ebony. Very smooth old wood patina, lovely to the eye and touch. The larger looking club has a hilt of 20cms overall, being 8cms wide at the cross guard. The "blade" is 53cms long, being 6cms wide at the hilt and swelling to 8cms wide near the tip. The hilt it approx 3cms thick at the widest point and the blade is approx 2cms thick at the widest point with a lovely oval taper to the "cutting" edge. The other has a hilt of 19cms long, cross guard of 8cms, blade 53cms long, being 4cms wide at the hilt and 8cms at the tip, the pommel is 4cms thick and the cross guard is 3 cms thick, the blade being 2cms thick at the hilt and 1.5 cms thick at the tip, again with a lovely oval cross section. They are a devistating weapon and my appreciation for ethnographical clubs has grown considerabely upon handling these two. Gav Attached Images Last edited by freebooter; 31st December 2008 at 02:50 AM.

31st December 2008, 02:54 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks fearn Thanks Fearn, Looking at image one in the last post by me, the pommels have a "crown" look to it that I have seen somewhere else in the spaces of time but I cannot put my finger on it. Can yourself or anyone else point out where I have seen this "style" of crown or Head Dress??? Gav

31st December 2008, 02:28 AM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Niiiiice! Congrats on getting them! F