Woomera N.Territory?

fearn · 29th November 2008, 02:58 AM

Hi Tim,

Dumb question, but could there be a mistaken repair on your woomera?

Specifically, the b/w picture you posted in #9 shows a hook at a more acute angle and a shell base that's oriented at an opposite angle to your specimen. What I would suggest is that, perhaps, the hook on your specimen was a bit loose, sliding up and down through the socket, and somebody positioned it on the wrong side and glued it in place.

Any evidence of a repair, or does the angle of the peg vary in samples?

So far as the megafauna extinction driving out the atlatl, I'd have to say that wouldn't work.

The big reason is that, in America, the megafauna went extinct around 10-12,000 years ago (except for the mammoths that held out to 1650 BC in the Arctic). However, the bow and arrow were apparently introduced to the New World around 4000 years ago by the paleo-eskimos. The atlatl was still used by the Aztec into historic times.

In Australia and New Guinea, the megafauna went extinct (apparently) around 40-50,000 years ago, but the people still use woomeras. And in Papua New Guinea, some tribes use bows, some tribes use spearthrowers--in place of bows? In addition? So we don't see a global replacement of one for the other.

Bottom line: I don't think there's a correlation between changing diets and changing gathering technology. I'd suggest that things like range and ease of manufacture probably matter more. Or, perhaps, losing a battle to a troop of archers might have inspired people to change over...

So far as Australian woomeras go, if Mr. McCormack is correct, then the spears thrown by woomeras are stiff enough to be used as handheld spears, and can be used in hand, as walking sticks, etc. I'm not sure the spears are that rigid, and we'll have to post some specimens. What I am more sure of is that atlatl darts are too small and thin for such uses, so I can see why they'd be replaced by bow and arrow--in some places. Remember that some people retained the atlatl technology for roughly 3000 years after the replacement became available, and the Maya apparently never adopted bows until Europeans introduced them in historic times.

Anyway, the switch from spearthrower to bow is a pretty complicated affair.

Now we've got a debate!

Best,

F

G. McCormack · 29th November 2008, 03:16 AM

The only folks who really used stiff atlatl darts were/are the Inuit. At least that we know of.

This is an amazing link. Especially the first 50 pics. Incredible collection of ethnographic pics relating to semi-modern atlatl use by the Inuit, Mexicans, South American groups, Australians, New Guineans, etc etc.

http://users.skynet.be/fa057790/pictures/index.htm

For discussion, check out the World Atlatl Association section over on http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/

fearn · 29th November 2008, 04:31 AM

Neat links. I see what you mean about spears flexing for the Aboriginal spears (Tafel 31.2)

Thanks,

F

Tim Simmons · 29th November 2008, 10:36 AM

Great pictures. I found this piece of dowel rod and tried the woomera with it. Thrown by hand I made a distance of 16 paces. When I tried the woormera I was lucky to get 4 paces that is untill I cut a notch in the dowl as in the picture. Then I threw up to 50 paces

The only problem, by now the pine resin was braking up being far too brittle only after about 4 throws. I have now ordered some Dammar resin. I would expect ongoing repairs but the orignal resin must have lasted more than 4 throws. Any answers on the resin?

G. McCormack · 29th November 2008, 04:57 PM

Very cool, glad to see that woomera getting use!

For the resin, cut the pitch with a little beeswax. Will make it less brittle.

Now, attach another length of dowel to the one you have, and you'll probly have enough flex to get going. For instant gratification purposes, duct tape works well for fletching material.

Remember, the flexibility of the dart causes the front end (the point) to resist moving when you start your throw. This resistance loads energy in the dart, flexing a spring. As you follow through with the stroke, the energy is released and the dart goes a flyin. The bigger the fletching, the more stable but slower the flight. If you balance your dart such that its point of balance is about 1/3 back from the point, you won't need fletching, the dart will stabilize itself. For distance fun throwing, try almost no fletching on a 7 foot 7 oz. dart that is moderately flexy. For hunting distances (less than 25 yards, realistically....unless you are throwing into a herd, which is not so feasible these days) a very heavy dart with big fletching is useful. The atlatl dart never achieves anywhere close to the speed of an arrow- instead you must rely on increased mass to result in power.

Have fun!

Oh! and those woomeras are so long, they really need a long dart to work well. About three times the length of the woomera, or more. But you will find that out

VANDOO · 30th November 2008, 04:32 AM

FROM THE PICTURES IT LOOKED LIKE SINU (SPELLING?) ANIMAL TENDONS, WERE USED FOR THE STRONG PART HOLDING THE PEG AND THE RESIN JUST HELD THE TENDONS IN PLACE. PERHAPS YOU NEED TO APPLY MORE SINU AND THEN RESIN AS THE SINU DID APPEAR DAMMAGED IN THE EARLY PHOTOS. I SUSPECT THE ENDS OF THE STRIPS GOING AROUND THE PEG WERE WRAPPED AROUND THE SHAFT AND LET DRY TO HOLD TIGHT AND THEN THE RESIN WAS APPLIED TO WATERPROOF, PROTECT AND HOLD THE SINU. GOOD LUCK

Tim Simmons · 30th November 2008, 03:26 PM

Fixed up a treat with bees wax in the pine resin, all available in North Queensland. Hope I find a use for the Dammar resin.

29th November 2008, 10:36 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Great pictures. I found this piece of dowel rod and tried the woomera with it. Thrown by hand I made a distance of 16 paces. When I tried the woormera I was lucky to get 4 paces that is untill I cut a notch in the dowl as in the picture. Then I threw up to 50 paces The only problem, by now the pine resin was braking up being far too brittle only after about 4 throws. I have now ordered some Dammar resin. I would expect ongoing repairs but the orignal resin must have lasted more than 4 throws. Any answers on the resin? Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 29th November 2008 at 10:47 AM.

29th November 2008, 02:58 AM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tim, Dumb question, but could there be a mistaken repair on your woomera? Specifically, the b/w picture you posted in #9 shows a hook at a more acute angle and a shell base that's oriented at an opposite angle to your specimen. What I would suggest is that, perhaps, the hook on your specimen was a bit loose, sliding up and down through the socket, and somebody positioned it on the wrong side and glued it in place. Any evidence of a repair, or does the angle of the peg vary in samples? So far as the megafauna extinction driving out the atlatl, I'd have to say that wouldn't work. The big reason is that, in America, the megafauna went extinct around 10-12,000 years ago (except for the mammoths that held out to 1650 BC in the Arctic). However, the bow and arrow were apparently introduced to the New World around 4000 years ago by the paleo-eskimos. The atlatl was still used by the Aztec into historic times. In Australia and New Guinea, the megafauna went extinct (apparently) around 40-50,000 years ago, but the people still use woomeras. And in Papua New Guinea, some tribes use bows, some tribes use spearthrowers--in place of bows? In addition? So we don't see a global replacement of one for the other. Bottom line: I don't think there's a correlation between changing diets and changing gathering technology. I'd suggest that things like range and ease of manufacture probably matter more. Or, perhaps, losing a battle to a troop of archers might have inspired people to change over... So far as Australian woomeras go, if Mr. McCormack is correct, then the spears thrown by woomeras are stiff enough to be used as handheld spears, and can be used in hand, as walking sticks, etc. I'm not sure the spears are that rigid, and we'll have to post some specimens. What I am more sure of is that atlatl darts are too small and thin for such uses, so I can see why they'd be replaced by bow and arrow--in some places. Remember that some people retained the atlatl technology for roughly 3000 years after the replacement became available, and the Maya apparently never adopted bows until Europeans introduced them in historic times. Anyway, the switch from spearthrower to bow is a pretty complicated affair. Now we've got a debate! Best, F

29th November 2008, 03:16 AM	#2
G. McCormack Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 131	The only folks who really used stiff atlatl darts were/are the Inuit. At least that we know of. This is an amazing link. Especially the first 50 pics. Incredible collection of ethnographic pics relating to semi-modern atlatl use by the Inuit, Mexicans, South American groups, Australians, New Guineans, etc etc. http://users.skynet.be/fa057790/pictures/index.htm For discussion, check out the World Atlatl Association section over on http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/

29th November 2008, 04:31 AM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Neat links. I see what you mean about spears flexing for the Aboriginal spears (Tafel 31.2) Thanks, F

29th November 2008, 04:57 PM	#5
G. McCormack Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 131	Very cool, glad to see that woomera getting use! For the resin, cut the pitch with a little beeswax. Will make it less brittle. Now, attach another length of dowel to the one you have, and you'll probly have enough flex to get going. For instant gratification purposes, duct tape works well for fletching material. Remember, the flexibility of the dart causes the front end (the point) to resist moving when you start your throw. This resistance loads energy in the dart, flexing a spring. As you follow through with the stroke, the energy is released and the dart goes a flyin. The bigger the fletching, the more stable but slower the flight. If you balance your dart such that its point of balance is about 1/3 back from the point, you won't need fletching, the dart will stabilize itself. For distance fun throwing, try almost no fletching on a 7 foot 7 oz. dart that is moderately flexy. For hunting distances (less than 25 yards, realistically....unless you are throwing into a herd, which is not so feasible these days) a very heavy dart with big fletching is useful. The atlatl dart never achieves anywhere close to the speed of an arrow- instead you must rely on increased mass to result in power. Have fun! Oh! and those woomeras are so long, they really need a long dart to work well. About three times the length of the woomera, or more. But you will find that out

30th November 2008, 04:32 AM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	FROM THE PICTURES IT LOOKED LIKE SINU (SPELLING?) ANIMAL TENDONS, WERE USED FOR THE STRONG PART HOLDING THE PEG AND THE RESIN JUST HELD THE TENDONS IN PLACE. PERHAPS YOU NEED TO APPLY MORE SINU AND THEN RESIN AS THE SINU DID APPEAR DAMMAGED IN THE EARLY PHOTOS. I SUSPECT THE ENDS OF THE STRIPS GOING AROUND THE PEG WERE WRAPPED AROUND THE SHAFT AND LET DRY TO HOLD TIGHT AND THEN THE RESIN WAS APPLIED TO WATERPROOF, PROTECT AND HOLD THE SINU. GOOD LUCK

30th November 2008, 03:26 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Fixed up a treat with bees wax in the pine resin, all available in North Queensland. Hope I find a use for the Dammar resin.