Ancient Spear Or Forgery?

[wolviex]

Hello!

It something between spear and sponton, 19th century. We have here in Museum few halberds, spontons etc. like this - very rude, very heavy, unhandy. After the cleaning it could be nice decorative object.

[Tim Simmons]

Hello Drzzzzz. Looks like the real thing to me but alas only in decorative condition.It is really out of my field but may be late 17-late18 cent and known as a Partizan.Here are some pictures.Tim

[tom hyle]

If it seems excessively heavy, especially in the thickness of the flanges, that may more point to a late 19th decorative piece; I think old partizans and spontoons were usually fairly light affairs; on the other hand, most I've seen were somewhat vestigial 18th century rank-marker military standards, or others similarly ceremonial, so say it was a 17th c. piece; a greater weight and solidity might be "right" for all I know. If it seems cast, it's likely 1850-1930. What about the decorative theme; the man or boy; I know there's not much detail left, but it seems like a "stock" image; perhaps a datable one?

[fearn]

Personally, I can't help wondering if it's a decorative piece made of cast iron. For what it's worth, I was thinking partizan as well.

Fearn

[tom hyle]

The pictures take a while; I never saw the end of the socket before. It seems thicker than proper; is it flanged from being beaten upon? Is it folded-over to the in side? Or is it straight-up just that thick? Anyway, the socket, especially the inside, is where you'll either likely see casting lines, or a forging line where it was rolled up, and maybe a tanglike nub from the blade-base. I personally think I may see a casting line disapearing into that shadow. I, too, suspect a casting, late 19th/early 20th, and moreso with that thick socket end, but I'm not sure. How old is the break at the tip? it does not look sharpened? Is there crystalize "grain" visible? Ie pebbly surface? Is there delamination/layers visible here or anywhere?

[Jens Nordlunde]

For a partizan it looks more heavy than normally seen, so I agree that it is cast.

Jens

[derek]

Doesn't the socket seem a bit too short to be functional?

-d

[Mark]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

If it seems excessively heavy, especially in the thickness of the flanges, that may more point to a late 19th decorative piece; I think old partizans and spontoons were usually fairly light affairs; on the other hand, most I've seen were somewhat vestigial 18th century rank-marker military standards, or others similarly ceremonial, so say it was a 17th c. piece; a greater weight and solidity might be "right" for all I know. If it seems cast, it's likely 1850-1930. What about the decorative theme; the man or boy; I know there's not much detail left, but it seems like a "stock" image; perhaps a datable one?

I was thinking a later ceremonial piece, as well. I have read somewhere that the partizan (and the halbard, too, I guess) survived for a long time as a prop in the pomp and circumstance of European noble's trains. Picture the Beefeaters, the Swiss Guard, or the [English] Queen's Life Guard. Well, the last one's don't carry pole-arms, but they do wear anachronistic cuirasses and burnished helmets. I would expect that this kind of thing became more decorative and less useful as a weapon as time went by.

[Conogre]

The uses are many, including those listed by Tom, while another common usage for similar items was/is as gate and wall fillials in large estates, with smaller, spear-like heads mounted on the bars themselves.....I've seen variuos polearm heads, both simulated and real, used as such in SE Asia, the US and in photographs from S. America as well and suspect similar may be found throughout Europe.
Cast iron "replicas" are often made locally for theatrical use as well, as I've known gentlemen who produce such in both Michigan and here in Florida as well.
Oh...and don't forget flagpole fillials, both on today's pieces and on regimental/company military flagpoles from the erly 1900's back to the revolutionary period here in the US, as well as for fraternal organizations that can cover a wide range of time periods.
With the apparenty flattened edges and heavy weight, I suspect that yours may well have been used in the latter fashion.
Mike

[Andrew]

I've linked this thead to MyArmoury. Perhaps someone over there can add to the discussion.

http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewto...?p=38715#38715

[Conogre]

Is it too late to say, "if you don't want it........."?**grin**
Obviously, I personally find it has a certain appeal
Mike